Topic: ACOUSTIC versus ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC the pros and the cons

I can't help it, when I hear electro-acoustic guitars, they all sound similar, a cheap epiphone will not sound better than a gibson

What is my problem?
1) The warm acoustic sound like the young Dylan or Donovan
2) I don't like to drill a hole in one of my collection.
3) I do have a Martin D1 El-Ac, "mediocre"
4) I try to work with 2 good old microphones, 1 near the hole, the other on the 3°fret counting from the hole.

Am I alone, who is PRO, who is CONTRA?

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

Re: ACOUSTIC versus ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC the pros and the cons

Having done the "two mics" bit for years back in folkie days, It's easy to see where folks like the convenience of simply plugging in a guitar with on-board electrics.

You don't see a whole lot of professionals using anything else, though they do tend to use high-end systems with both piezo and microphone on-board.

If you're really picky about the sound, and you have a really good set of mics and a really good amp... Then likely you'll get the nicest reproduction that way.

But will your audience care?

To my ear, a decent axe run through a decent system sounds just fine regardless of how you run the amplification.

I believe it was Merle Travis who said,  "You're going to have to amplify. Doesn't make much difference which side of the strings the pickup is."

Re: ACOUSTIC versus ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC the pros and the cons

You can put lipstick on a pig but it will still look like a pig. I have a $700.00 Takamine Electric / Acoustic and play thru a $400.00 AC 60 Roland acoustic amp. With this equipment I get what I consider to be excellant sound that works well with the style of music I play. I've played along side of "high dollar" Martins, miked and amped, and feel as though I am on equal ground with them. Even had a Martin player ask if he could use my guitar / amp to do a couple songs. Good sound is matching your equipment to your music style.

nela

Re: ACOUSTIC versus ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC the pros and the cons

NELA, define good sound? For you, the audience? When you play, your amp is behind you.
I have a Marshall AS100D acoustic, but more used as electric amp.
The price is not relevant but if you look and listen to a 1000 - 3000$ el - ac, I can't tell you the difference. A nice trick is let the seller play before decision.

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

Re: ACOUSTIC versus ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC the pros and the cons

He did define good sound Doc.  He said it's matching your equipment to your music style.  Would Willie Nelson sound the same on a Fender strat?  I don't think so - but Fender strats are still good guitars. 

I'm rather glad that you asked this Lievan, because I've been toying with the same question.  I've gone back and looked at Youtube videos of the artists whose songs I attempt - James Taylor, Neil Young, Jim Croce and the like.  They all of them were using microphones to amplify straight acoustic guitars.  Neil Young still plays on the Martin dreadnaught he bought back in those days when he first started to make some money, and he still mics it.  When I listen to Prarie Wind or Harvest Moon or Harvest or any of his recent acoustic work, I don't think "Wow, that would sound a lot better if he had installed a combination piezo/internal mic pickup."  I think "That's good music." 

For what it's worth. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: ACOUSTIC versus ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC the pros and the cons

Of course, some of us go the cheezy route with good effect....I usually play my cigar-box resonator guitar (about 25 bucks total plus a couple weeks of labor) through my Danelectro "Honeytone" amp.  (about 20 bucks).

Sounds good to me....

All depends what you're after.

Re: ACOUSTIC versus ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC the pros and the cons

Bikewer wrote:

Of course, some of us go the cheezy route with good effect....I usually play my cigar-box resonator guitar (about 25 bucks total plus a couple weeks of labor) through my Danelectro "Honeytone" amp.  (about 20 bucks).

Sounds good to me....

All depends what you're after.

were there any plans for that cigar box resonator? on line howto guide?

[url=http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w9/paulcooke100/Paul.jpg]a better photo of me[/url]
[url=http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w9/paulcooke100/IMGP0556.jpg]My basses[/url]
haven't photographed my guitars yet... smile

8 (edited by gitaardocphil 2009-12-31 14:18:30)

Re: ACOUSTIC versus ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC the pros and the cons

cigar box resonator in acoustic? Never heard of it.
NELA, sorry, my answer was sharp.
I just tried to tell that when you play, you hear the sound behind you or another place, I compare it with a very simple thing IF YOU SING A SONG AND YOU RECORD IT? YOU ARE AMAZED THAT YOUR VOICE SOUNDS DIFFERENT, same = looking in the mirror and compare with a picture that was the essence

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

Re: ACOUSTIC versus ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC the pros and the cons

If you're interested in the wide variety of cigar-box instruments, check out the definitive site:
http://www.cigarboxnation.com/

Cigar Box Nation.   Videos, audio recording, building tips, etc, etc.

The very nature of these critters is individual and quirky, so everyone has their own approach.  I've seen resonator guitars made using commercial cones and covers (usually the ones made for resonator mandolins or ukuleles) to all sorts of improvised items.
I built mine using the aluminum top for a Girl-Scout cooking set as the resonator.

Some of the guys do have plans up for building "basic" instruments.

10 (edited by NELA 2010-01-02 01:22:25)

Re: ACOUSTIC versus ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC the pros and the cons

I believe it's hard to judge YOUR own music since we do become a little too critical of our sound. I try to judge my sound by the comments I get, or lack of, from the people listening. Prior to playing I try, during practice, to tweak everything as best as I can. During a "sound check" last minute touches can be made to improve everything you have put into place. I like a lotta styles of music but mostly stick to the older country, blues, light gospel. Since I play rythem, I want to hear the song through the strums and chord changes. I don't want to sound like another player, I want to sound like myself. I want to play for the person singing so they can follow the melody of the song. Together, at least for me, these are the 2 key elements for the success of the song.

Nela

Re: ACOUSTIC versus ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC the pros and the cons

Bikewer wrote:

If you're interested in the wide variety of cigar-box instruments, check out the definitive site:
http://www.cigarboxnation.com/

Cigar Box Nation.   Videos, audio recording, building tips, etc, etc.

thanks...

[url=http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w9/paulcooke100/Paul.jpg]a better photo of me[/url]
[url=http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w9/paulcooke100/IMGP0556.jpg]My basses[/url]
haven't photographed my guitars yet... smile

12 (edited by gitaardocphil 2010-01-04 11:56:21)

Re: ACOUSTIC versus ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC the pros and the cons

NELA, I think we walk on a parallel road.
MY POINTS ARE
1) If you sing, the melody coming out from your vocal chords, will be different, because of the anatomic structure, so if you record your voice and listen, it sounds different.
2) Same with a guitar, you sit with the back of the guitar body on your body and the hole is in front, so if you record that too, or if someone plays on your guitar, hole in your direction, the sound will be a little bit different

This is all "physics" and about VIBRATION waves.

HOW GOOD ARE THESE "CIGAR BOX" shaped guitars? ELECTRIC OR ACOUSTIC? It sounds like fun to make such a guitar.

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

Re: ACOUSTIC versus ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC the pros and the cons

Check out the link to Cigar Box Nation.  We have all sorts of videos and sound links up, and you can judge for yourself.   Of course, it ain't gonna be a Guild or a Martin...

Re: ACOUSTIC versus ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC the pros and the cons

gitaardocphil wrote:

MY POINTS ARE
1) If you sing, the melody coming out from your vocal chords, will be different, because of the anatomic structure, so if you record your voice and listen, it sounds different.

Lieven when you hear yourself talk or sing normally a good percentage of the sound is transmitted internally to your eardrums but when you hear a recording you are hearing externally through your ears canals only (just as everyone else hears you) which is why you sound so different. I, and I am sure many others who record regularly, are so used to this that we do not notice the difference anymore.

Roger

"Do, or do not; there is no try"

Re: ACOUSTIC versus ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC the pros and the cons

I think you are referring to Bone Conductance... one of the principals that make implants for the deaf practical.

  I think you are correct that practice and training make it possible for one to become used to what sounds within and without and eventually gain the ability to "know" what is on pitch vocally.

  As for myself, I can't stay on key singing in the shower without a microphone and monitor, but with them I harmonize pretty well for a fellow who once wore the label "tone deaf"  (gunfire and artillery).

  Welcome back Roger..... some of us thought you'd expired....?

Take Care;
Doug

"what is this quintessence of dust?"  - Shakespeare

Re: ACOUSTIC versus ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC the pros and the cons

Doug_Smith wrote:

Welcome back Roger..... some of us thought you'd expired....?

Thanks Doug, but you can't get rid of me as easy as that smile. A serious PC crash followed by a minor illness and a trip to the UK for my baby girl's 40th birthday have kept me off line for a while.

Aplogies to Lieven for going off topic.

Roger

"Do, or do not; there is no try"

Re: ACOUSTIC versus ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC the pros and the cons

Yep, my friend ROGER, you have a similar phenomenon when you see yourself in the mirror, and then on a picture.
I am looking really ugly on a picture.

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

Re: ACOUSTIC versus ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC the pros and the cons

I have the problem too Doc.  In the mirror, I see a handsome, young, and muscular individual.  But in pictures of me there's this homely, gray-bearded, fat guy.  I can't figure out how every camera in the world is broken. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude