1 Topic by naolslager (edited by naolslager 2009-12-15 13:24:17)

  • From: Virginia, USA
  • Registered: 2009-06-12
  • Posts: 873

Topic: Fretting the Epiphery: The year of Misdirection?

For almost a year now I have been attempting to become a “very good" , self-taught guitar player. I’ve memorized approximately fifteen (open) chords and can progress through them reasonably well. In fact I can construct snippets of a few songs and WAS quite pleased with myself.

All along I knew I’d have to conquer moveable shape (barre) chords most likely beginning with the “F"  (1st position, E shape) and could feel the barre chord epiphery approaching. In fact I am VERY close with this particular one. In the meantime I was reading books about the “logic"  of the fretboard and yesterday I experienced an epiphery but not the one I expected. Instead of suddenly being able to play the mighty “F"  and lay aside my “Fmaj7"  cheat for the time being, I realized that maybe the barre chords should have come first! And if this is true have I been misdirecting my time for the last year? I now fight dejection as I stagger around trying to recompose myself for continued time with steel and wood.

Questions.
1.    Was the guitar designed with the moveable shape chords in mind? (Some of my readings seems to indicate so.)
2.    Are open chords merely shortcuts foisted on would-be musicians as easy alternatives to encourage proliferation of the species?
3.    Should I have started with the five moveable shapes?
4.    Must I master them all to achieve my goal of becoming a “very good"  guitar player?
5.    What order should I approach them?
6.    What else do I not know but should?

Can someone answer these questions please? Answers (and any other advice) would help me continue the difficult (but fun) struggle. By the way, in the same year, I’ve become a pretty good study of (purchasing) guitars and now own five. Of course the fifth one is, as I’ve mentioned in another posting, a Christmas gift from my wife that I purchased and hid from myself until the man in red shows in TEN DAYS! I wait with fretful anticipation.

  • wlbaye
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  • From: Black Hills So Dak
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
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Re: Fretting the Epiphery: The year of Misdirection?

Sounds like you are doing very well to me smile

1. What are your goals ?  Singer Songwriter, lead player, session musician, or just play and have fun jammin

2. If you watch good bluegrass player you will see very few if any barre chords

3. If you are gonna play rock, blues and lots of alt music Barre Chords are a must

4. I have had instruction from one of the best pickers I have ever seen and he uses mostly forms of chords all up and down the neck with very few barre chords he uses the movable shapes of a open B-7 chord  Dm  and C7 alot up and down the neck with few barre chords.

5. I guess, what I am saying there are lots of different ways to play and sound very good, I wouldn't stress out over barre chords, they will come , just keep practicing on them. Just don't spend all your time on them. Playing along with backing tracks or songs you like is one of the most important things that is overlooked. It will become automatic playing along and you won't have to count to the chord changes you will know where they are.

6   Have fun and don't be too hard on yourself   smile

Later, Wayne P

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  • Registered: 2007-03-24
  • Posts: 1,108

Re: Fretting the Epiphery: The year of Misdirection?

Your time with open chords has not been wasted although some of what you say is true; bar chords are fundamentally important. I would say knowing both is very necessary. Although I'd say bar chords are more "powerful", sometimes there is no substitute for an open chord. Your ear will discern this if it hasn't already. An open C vs the 3rd fret "A shape" bar sound similar but not the same. Sometimes there is no sweeter sound than an open chord. Both are useful

I used to be disgusted; now I try to be amused.
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  • wlbaye
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  • From: Black Hills So Dak
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Re: Fretting the Epiphery: The year of Misdirection?

I agree Geo,

but I think sometimes, because a barre chord is a tough challenge, beginners put too much emphasis on them. I recently played with a girl that has been playing for ten years and can play open and barre chords well but doesn't have her timing down and cannot carry a tune on her own. I played with a 16 year old boy a while back that can play just about any kind of music and you would think he is a master of the fretboard and can play any blues lick or any Tony Rice bluegrass lick, but he cannot keep time and play by himself.
Time aint wasted if you are jammin with others or playing along with the radio or whatever, it all opens your ears and makes you better smile

Later, Wayne P

wlbaye's Website

  • Zurf
  • Zurf
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  • From: Virginia, USA
  • Registered: 2007-06-27
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Re: Fretting the Epiphery: The year of Misdirection?

Fuggetaboutit.

Short answer: You did not waste your time. 

Long answer: I've got a buddy who has three solo albums out and has been playing guitar and writing songs for twenty years now.  His opinion on barre chords is that they're something the electric players use.  No B's and no F's in any of his songs.  Now, some other buddies of mine who are professionals in Nashville and who I had in my truck to take them fishing before they played a gig heard the other buddies album I was playing and THEY said (between laughing at the lyrics of songs like Pistol Don, an alcoholic gunslinger cowboy - "Drink all night, Pistol Don" or a song about Little Georgie a midget fortune teller who escapes from prison titled "Small Medium at Large"), "He's a pretty good picker.  If he were cleaned up in a studio with the same equipment the big boys use, he'd sound better than most of the guys playing on the circuit right now." 

So, if it's important for you to play with barre chords, and there's a very good argument that it ought to be, you should learn barre chords.  However, you can play songs, write songs, and be a "pretty good picker" in the minds of Nashville pros without ever learning them. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
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  • From: Alabama Gulf Coast
  • Registered: 2008-06-24
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Re: Fretting the Epiphery: The year of Misdirection?

Hi naolslager,
#1. The barre chords make it easy for a guitar player to play in different keys by using the same shape on a different fret. The shape also gives you a track to run on for playing individual notes in a solo.
#2. Open chords are sweet for certain tunes where the open strings ring out more than covered ones. Thousands of songs have three or four chords and open tunings sound great as well as playing with a slide.
#3. Jump on the covered shapes as the tunes you are learning call for them. In the context of a new song, you can see clearly how and when these  new chords are used.
#4. You will get around to them all eventually if you attempt enough new cool songs. It is useful to practice all of them, of course, as long as you can do it and keep it fun.
#5. I learned them as the need for them arose.
First, major and minor in each shape, followed by major and minor sevenths and nineths. Add some augmenteds and diminished and you got 90% of what you will need. Chord websites are a great tool to find these funny chords as well as how and where to make them in your song project.
I don't have an answer for #6.
Remember, if you get it really right you make everybody smile - including you.
toots

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Ya'll wanna go down to the Guf?

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7 Reply by naolslager (edited by naolslager 2009-12-17 14:43:08)

  • From: Virginia, USA
  • Registered: 2009-06-12
  • Posts: 873

Re: Fretting the Epiphery: The year of Misdirection?

Thanks to all for the advice. I've spread my guitar inventory out to include one in my office. Therefore solace is always only arm's length away.

And it turns out my playable (and wall-hangable) art is not only a topic of interest and conversation but it's Siren call has been heard by several heretofore unknown (to me) guitarists. It turns out there is a glut of guitarists in my small building. We've already cludged together one jam session with others sure to follow.

Barre chords or open chords this is just good, clean fun!