Topic: Lowering action

I know this question has been covered before and I have researched it some but still need some advice or maybe just some encouragement. I have an acoustic electric guitar that was moderately priced. My budget is small, as a matter of fact it takes most of what I make to keep the family under shelter, fed, clothed etc, so taking the guitar to a tech, luthier, repair shop or whatever just isn't going to happen. I am very happy with my guitar, it suits my needs well. I play only for my entertainment. I think the strings are just a bit high though. I know what to to do, because of what I have learned here and at other sites but I am hesitant for fear of ruining my guitar. I believe just sanding the bottom of the saddle down a bit would help a lot. Is this someting I could really mess up? Should I get another saddle to have standing by in case I make a mess of the old one? Should I maybe just get a new saddle and try and shave that one down? Help please!

Thanks,

"R"

Re: Lowering action

bigrinwv wrote:

Is this someting I could really mess up?

The worst that could happen is you'd need to replace the saddle. Assuming the saddle isn't glued in place, I'm not sure if they are.

bigrinwv wrote:

Should I get another saddle to have standing by in case I make a mess of the old one? Should I maybe just get a new saddle and try and shave that one down? Help please!

Probably better to buy a new one and use that, and least then if it does go wrong you can always put the old one back in.

Re: Lowering action

bigrinwv wrote:

I know this question has been covered before and I have researched it some but still need some advice or maybe just some encouragement. I have an acoustic electric guitar that was moderately priced. My budget is small, as a matter of fact it takes most of what I make to keep the family under shelter, fed, clothed etc, so taking the guitar to a tech, luthier, repair shop or whatever just isn't going to happen. I am very happy with my guitar, it suits my needs well. I play only for my entertainment. I think the strings are just a bit high though. I know what to to do, because of what I have learned here and at other sites but I am hesitant for fear of ruining my guitar. I believe just sanding the bottom of the saddle down a bit would help a lot. Is this someting I could really mess up? Should I get another saddle to have standing by in case I make a mess of the old one? Should I maybe just get a new saddle and try and shave that one down? Help please!

Thanks,

"R"

"R"
The first thing you should do is switch to a lighter guage string. Heavier guage strings create more tension  on the neck, thus lifting the strings up a bit more than thinner strings. If the thinner guage strings do not correct your action issues then have a professional have a look at your guitar. If you take too much off of your saddle you're gonna have string buzzing issues due to the strings being too low. There's a fine line in guitar repair.........

Peace and Guitars,
SouthPaw41L

Give everything but up.

Re: Lowering action

Thanks guys, I'll try all those things. Well almost all, I'm afraid I can't have a professional do the job right now for previously stated reasons.

"R"

Re: Lowering action

A professional will tell you what needs to be done free of charge. (most will at least) I suggest that you send Bootlegger (electric forum moderator)a private e-mail with as much detailed information that you can give him. He's very good at troubleshooting and problem solving.

Give everything but up.

Re: Lowering action

Thanks South Paw

I'll drop him a line. It really isn't that bad but I play a lot and the action could be a bit easier. I can live with it if I have to but If I can make it easier, so much the better.

Re: Lowering action

Hi bigrinwv - lowering the saddle is not at all a difficult task, but like southpaw says, if you are not comfortable tackling it, take it to a pro. Here's a link to some detailed info about lowering the saddle:

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musicia … ion01.html

And if you get it too low, you can order shim kits from here:

http://www.guitarsaddles.com/SaddleShim.asp

Good Luck!

Rule No. 1 - If it sounds good - it is good!

Re: Lowering action

http://www.theguitarfiles.com/modules.p … amp;sid=97
http://www.sheehans.com/acoustic-guitar … itar-setup
This was a nice forum post on how to set up an acoustic http://www.guitar4christ.com/modules.ph … p;p=341895

I do all my own guitar work.  A clockwise turn brings the neck down, too much torque and you could splinter the wood.  Be careful, don't force the allen key.  I have shaved saddle before, too.  I pull the saddle out, use 80 grit sandpaper on a flat sanding block and keep even pressure and use short strokes to remove material.  After you have down to where you want it, clean off the burrs with 220 grit or finer. 
I would advise to give at least a 1/4 clockwise turn to the truss rod adjustment before sanding the saddle.  And read these links, I read them all and they have good info.

Bob
Grantville, PA
Trying to get back into the swing of playing more.

Re: Lowering action

i did my fender acoustic eletric with fine emory paper worked fine just be patient and try to guess how much u want to take off i could have taken altile more but i satisified the need

Re: Lowering action

Lots of good info here... I would add the advice to work slowly and remember that it's relative easy to take stuff off, but awful hard to put it back on! Sanding and shaving should be done slowly and absolutely without power tools! I know that it's tempting to whip out a dremel tool and grind away but that has (yep, I've done it!) always ended up with things in worse shape than what I started with. It's time consuming, but you can remove a saddle or nut...sand a bit off...then restring to tension and play for a while and see how it works... remember too that on neck adjustment a 1/4 turn is a lot...work slowly!  I hope all works well with the project.......

Middleaged Redneck sorta guy who refuses to grow up...passion for music, especially Southern Rock but like bout everything cept Gangsta/Hip Hop. Collect guitars, mandolins, and love to ride Harleys.

Re: Lowering action

Good advice above - I've done most of these at one time or another. A couple of points -

1. Make sure if you are sanding the bridge to keep the bottom of the bridge flat ( try clamping it). I sanded one down too far on one side which led to buzzing because the bridge wasn't seated properly, thankfully I had not sanded enough, so was able to take the bevel out of it.

2. If you are replacing nut or bridge think about what you replace it with. Tusq and bone will change the tone of the guitar, for better or worse depending on your taste.

"Don't play what's there, play what's not there." Miles Davis

12 (edited by crevs.1972 2009-10-21 16:20:17)

Re: Lowering action

I purchased my second guitar a few months ago and the action was too high so I set about lowering it as I had done with my previous guitar (successfully).  The action on first guitar was 1.5 to 2mm at the 12th fret and played well and on my new one it was 3mm, it's only 1mm but it's a lot.

Firstly I tightened the truss rod, I did a fair bit of research beforehand it's important to only turn a 1/4 turn at a time before letting it settle for a day or two.  I read in several places that as a guide, put your capo on the first fret and hold your string tight to the last fret and you should be able to squeeze a business card between the middle fret and the string. If the gap is bigger than the thickness of a business card the rod needs to be tightened and slacken if the gap is too small.

Then I sanded the bridge, I wanted to come down 1mm at the 12th fret and as the 12th fret was midway between the bridge and nut, I figured I needed to take 2mm off the bridge!  I marked 2mm on the bridge and started to sand, I placed a large piece of sandpaper on the kitchen worktop and rubbed the bridge back and fore, checking all the time to make sure I'm taking the same of each end.

Now I have a 2mm action at the 12th and it's fine, I may take a fraction more off when I change the strings in a few weeks.

Be careful, take it slowely and expect it to take a few weeks.   If you don't think your capable, remember paying to get it set up is cheaper that a new guitar!

Good luck!

Epiphone EJ200  -  Epiphone SG400  -  Fender Strat Blacktop.
Blackstar HT 40 Club  -  Vox VT30 - Behringer ACX ultracoustic 1000

Re: Lowering action

bigrinwv when and if you choose to sand down the saddle be sure to remove it carefully from the bridge. With it being an acoustic electric if it has the under saddle pickups you could damage the connections between it and the pickup. If the saddle is OEM plastic don't bother shaving it and just get another to shave because with time plastic becomes brittle and you stand a bigger chance of breaking it. I've learned all of this the hard way but i did save myself a set up fee and now i have confidence to do my own set ups. good Luck

Re: Lowering action

1. Bridges are not glued in.

2. Some manufacturers put layer of very thin shims under their bridges which can easily be removed.  Look and see.

3. As stated previously, a  clockwise (tightening) turn of the truss rod and lighter guage strings might solve your situation.

4. Like my old 12 string, it might need a neck reset.  Ask yourself if your guitar worth the expense?

5. Standard bridges are cheap.  Sand yours down. If that doesn't work for you, buy another or buy a bridge you can experiment with and leave your OEM bridge as is.

6. Tune it to Open D or Open G and learn to play slide guitar.

Now available in 5G !

Re: Lowering action

if you are going to sand the saddle lay it on a flat surface and draw a line all the way across with a pencel check the height of the strings from the fretts by folding paper  before you destring then check the height of pencel line with same folded paper and leave some pencel line do not take to much off  but if you do use shimm stock to raise it back up

always pickin someting

Re: Lowering action

set up is often overlooked on an inexpensive giutar..you really can't make a 300$ guitar sound like a 3000$ guitar..but you can make it play just about as easy.  before you adjust the neck truss..put a capo on the 1st frett and then hold the E strings {one at a time} down at the 13th frett..there should be a gap of about .005 to .010.or about the thickness of 2 sheets of paper in the middle.. step 2...with the capo still on...measure the strings at the 12th frett..5/64 should be safe..you can go a bit lower..for a ballpark get 8 poker playing cards..that will be damn close to what your looking for..if your strings are higher than that keep adding cards untill they just fill the space..now the tricky part..see how many cards you added..double this amount..thats how much needs to be removed from the bottom of the saddle..let's say you had to add 3 cards..then you need to lower the saddle by 6 cards...leave the capo on and loosen the strings,remove the pins and the string from the bridge..the strings will be held in place by the capo..the saddle should lift out..take a sharp pencil and use the cards 6 in my example.lay the cards on a flat serface and hold the saddle up to the edge...make a line.a sheet of 220 grit wet dry paper works just fine..on a flat surface put the paper and use the side of a CD case or some other square edge as a giude to keep the saddle upright ..make sure that the saddle is dead flat and square when your done..this will make an amazing improvement in your guitar..now step 3 is going to mean a trip to the guitar store...take a look at how much the string needs to move from open to the first fret...when you hold the string down at the first fret..look at how far it needs to move to be down at the second fret..if we use the poker cards again...you will see that it is about 3 cards fron ths string to the open first fret...and less than 2 cards at the second fret once the string is held down at the first fret..it doesen't seem like much but that's 50% lower,,,if you do the rest  i bet you can get the shop to file the nut for a sixpack..or maybe just a good line of BS..ie sob story..lol...you will love your very much

Re: Lowering action

More than a year after my first post in this thread, I finally worked up enough courage to give it a try. I had a blank saddle in my case so I grabbed some sand paper and started sanding. Had to match the shape of the original saddle as closely as I could. Then start lowering the height. I did it slowly so as not get too much sanded away. When it looked about right I put the saddle in the bridge and put the old strings back on. I could tell an immediate difference in the way the guitar played and sounded. Barre chords easier all down the neck. Volume maybe a little less but the tone much clearer. I dunno, a prettier sound. I hooked it up to my Laney amplifier( I don't have an acoustic amp) and it was beautiful.  Before when amplified it had a harsh clacking sound when the volume was up just a little. Now it sounds like a really loud unapmplified acoustic guitar. Just what I want from an acoustic electric. I have a feeling it has to do with the material the saddles are made from. The original is more plasticy and I think the new one is Tusq or something llike that, synthetic bone maybe.I think I should have taken a bit more off the bottom of the saddle and I may do that when I change strings again.  One thing that hasn't changed is the guitar isn't intonated correctly. Its a little off on all strings but it was that way before I changed the saddle so I guess that might be a topic for another thread.