911 - and the world continues to spin

not that i am a believer but just the USA? why not the whole world and every human on it?

Anyway, I wont go on about that too much.

Zurf,
Very nice words you typed there.
I am not into remembering much and for memorials etc. The reason is because by the time I am 68 there will probably be some sort of memorial every day nearly. When there are too many the important ones will fade away with the rest no matter how hard people try to keep them up.

But I do hope all your memorials you are having today go well and peaceful.

I was going to say I hope one day there will be true world peace but there never will be sadly, not in our lifetime anyway.

Ken

I guess I have no problem with God Bless the USA or Scotland, UK or God Bless the World. I will even go along with the Texans !

Right Here on Chordie          

http://www.chordie.com/chord.pere/www.r … ssed_texas

On that day in 2001, I was hiking and climbing Mt. Katahdin in Baxter State Park, Millinocket, Miane.  10 hours of blissful solitude, beautiful weather, magnificent scenery.   

I do mourn the victims of mindless violence, but, I also hold onto the great memories of that day for me.  If I don't then the terrorists win, life goes on. 

Having said that, I am sick and tired of the amoral US politicians stirring up the merde for political gain, the media doing likewise for ratings. 

Nuff said.

here are some video clips i put together
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Raj_bI181Tc

i would hate to see this turn into a political thread because I just would not be able to keep quiet
BUT, even if Bin Laden was caught terrorism will not stop there. Even when Binny man dies terrorists will "fight" on in his name.
The extremists are turning the world into what it is today.....an unsafe planet to live.

now since we cannot have political arguments here  i shall go elsewhere and type my thoughts on this politically  

KEn

I dont want to highjack this thread Zurf as it started out very good wit hgood intentions etc but since ye mentioned something i want to ask...

If you have not to hate your enemies then does this mean to like them?
If you have not to hate them then how are you suppose to fight them? you cannot fight something you like or have no opinions over.
to fight something you must have bad feelings towards it ot you will lose the fight before the battle has begun.
I think maybe in past days  and perhaps in these days where an enemy is made of a proper army then maybe you could say do not hate your enemy as they are obeying orders by a government. But people like bin laden and his men I would say definitly hate him and all that carry out terrorist acts.
I would say I hate them as they have no rules or respect for human...innocent human lives.

Maybe a book of some sot of god would say do not hate but the person that wrote these words can never say they have never hated someone without being a hypocrite. I do not believe that there is anyone on this planet that do not hate someone. They might disguise it as " not really liking the person" but it boils down to hate. Maybe not a degree of hate they would feel towards a terrorist but hate all the same.
To hate is part of human nature as is love. There is no point in a good book trying to change our natural human nature. All animals on this planet will hate something or someone.
I dont believe hate got anyone into this mess. It was the west interfering in other cultures etc that got us all into this mess. Whether the west were right or wrong to go and interfere is another matter but this is what I believe and has been documented as being the fault of terrorism today that we are getting.
But on top of this, the governments dont make it much better by propagandaing their beliefs to everyone on TV, folk that dont have a clue what is goijng on but when they are told by an oficial and it sounds convincing they will believe as they have no reason not to believe.

Lots of folk say they hate muslims just now... I think this is very wrong and I would welcome any muslim wanting to stay in scotland with open arms but if I found out any were terrorists ( or anyone else not just muslims) I would take an instant feeling of hate towards them.

So if hate got us into this mess then "hate" is another word for " america, the UK and NATO"

if this is too political and the moderators want to then delete this post if you want. I really dont mind as I dont agree with political stuff in here.

"slap on the hand.bumm and face for me"

Ken

I cant watch any 9/11 videos again once was enough I would really like to say what I am thinking this moment about past events which led us to the posistion we as Americans are in believe me I would, but Chordie is not a venue for venting political agendas or religious dogmatisisms we come together to share our love for music the one redeeming human quality that transends them and elevates us above this madness.

I understand what Zurf is saying.  As well as what others are saying as well.  Hate got us into this mess and it is as natural a part of us as love.  But, we do have a choice, we can let hate rule our emotions as we fight or we can replace it with a cold logical determination that allows us to think properly and make decisions that can achieve our goals.   Hate blinds the mind, and leads us into poor decisions.  WW2 was not fought with blind hatred, it started out that way, but, then cold logical determination came out and we won. 

It's ok to be angry, but if you have to fight, it's better to keep a cool head.

Zurf,
i wouldnt publish any emails I dont think.
I am sorry if I come across here as being negative towards your beliefs, I totaly respect everyone's beliefs. whatever anyone wants to believe in is fine with me, even if I do question it sometimes.

It is hard not to get into politics and religion sometimes, like here just now.
So many have different opinions and some that have really strong opinions will not stop at agreeing to disagree. I can do that but some cannot. I know you can too. But since it is public it leaves it open for folk that cannot to speak their mind if they see an opporunity to do so, and I would not say this is a bad thing. It is called freedom of speech, something we can have in a lot of places in the world and not so much in other places.

If everyone just listened to everything I said and obeyed everything I say then there would be no problems anywhere yes twas a joke!! ( for those that thought they would take me seriously there)

I even come across in some other forums as anti american but I really am not, I just question a lot of things they say. I would question the french a lot too if I could understand them.
I see all humans on this planet as equal, I try not to differentiate anyone even though that is hard not to.

and to tubatooter.
your post me me laugh at the  " how long was I out for".

No worries Ken.  That was pretty much going to be the point of my message.  We are all equal, and while some want to kill us and we are thereby obligated to prevent them from doing so, they are nevertheless equal to us as human beings.  So, while I do see them as my enemies, and do not see a possibility of reconciliation with them meaning that they will remain my enemies, I do not hate them.  I do believe in God, and I do believe that God loves everyone - even including my enemies.  I further believe that in the instruction to love my enemies.  Here, love is meant as a verb and not as a noun.  When I say we should love our enemies, I do not mean that we should feel all mushy about them and want to kiss them.  I mean we should treat them with respect and dignity even as we kill them.  We ought not to kill them out of some sense of vengeance, because vengeance can never be satisfied.  We ought not to kill them out of an emotional response of hatred, because hatred is self-perpetuating and breeds more hatred.  We do need to recognize our enemies and prevent them from the harm they mean to do to us.  We are entitled to that, merely by dint of having been born human.  For the most part, and admitting a great deal of ignorance on the subject, and remembering a few notable exceptions, the U.S. and UK militaries have run just that sort of war.  They have ferociously pursued and killed our enemies, while being kind and merciful to the non-combatant countrymen of our enemies.  I am thinking here most specifically of Fallujah.  Remember that?  It was a known hideout of terrorists, but it was also known that the terrorists were embedding themselves through force into families and schools and hospitals, surrounding themselves with innocents.  There were a couple of options.  First, we could have gassed the town with flammable gas, carpet bombed it, then sent in bulldozers to flatten the rubble.  We would have killed the terrorists, but we would also have killed everyone else.  The second option was the one they did.  They sent in Marines to knock down doors, find the terrorists, then shoot them.  There were a lot of families angry that they didn't have doors any longer, and that the Marines were rough on them in front of their children.  But the reality of it is that the Marines were risking themselves to save those people's lives.  That is a terrific example of what I mean by "love our enemies." 

- Zurf

Ken i only put God Bless The USA as a memorial to the attacks on the USA. I hope and pray for world wide peace and blessings to all nations because the whole world in some way is affected by terrorism in some way or another. As for the peace we all search for it can be found in one's own self and how he or she sees thier surroundings and how we accept it. I have peace because i'm a believer of the great creator and have faith that God is still in control. As long as i have God as a protector and the sealer of my faith his peace is mine.