• Zurf
  • Zurf
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  • From: Virginia, USA
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Topic: You'd think musicians would know how to hear

So I've mentioned on here before about the water damage to my basement.  One of my bass practice amps was on the floor and the case of it was damaged by sitting in water.  The electronics, which are at the top of the cabinet work.  But the cabinet is made of Medium Density Fiberboard (MDF).  It absorbed water and swelled.  The glue holding the cover on has failed and the cover is coming off.  The front cover is stained.  The bottom of the paper cone has miraculously survived (perhaps it only looks like paper). 

So my insurance properly covers me if something is damaged.  They will pay to repair the damages, or they will pay to replace it if the damages cannot be repaired.  This is what I contracted them to do, what they agreed to provide, and what I have been paying premiums to receive.  It is all proper, honest, above board, and practically blooming over with integrity.  It is, in short, the usual and customary reason one pays for insurance in the first place.

Now, it's not all on my honor.  Anything over $250 requires me to have a repair estimate, or a statement from a technician/repairman saying that the damages cannot be repaired.  This is fair because they pay for the estimating fee. 

So each place I've taken this combo amp, the technician has said, "Oh.  I can't get a replacement case.  I can staple the cover back on, but it's always going to be swollen up like that." 

"Fine," I say, "can you just put that down in writing so that I can submit it to the insurance company."  Each has refused.  They don't want to be liable.  Liable for what?  For stating the truth?  "Well the amp still works", they say.  "Yes, it works.  But is it damaged?"  "Well, not really."  "So, that cabinet isn't swollen up and stained from sitting in water?"  "Sure it is."  "And you think that isn't damage?"  "But the amp still works." 

Round and round it goes.  Simply amazing.  It's as if they aren't willing to stand behind their own statement that they HAD JUST MADE TO THEIR CUSTOMER!!!

They all seem to want to interpret my insurance claim and policy without having seen either one.  All their being asked to do is to put down in writing what they had just told me.  The absolute and obvious truth, verifiable photographically.  Truth I would swear to under oath in a court of law.  The cabinet is damaged and cannot be repaired.  It is a combo amp, and so the cabinet is an integral part of the amp.  That the amp still makes the speaker go thump, thump, thump does NOT mean that the combo amp is not damaged or that the damage can be repaired. 

Bizarre.  And incredibly frustrating.  I'm not trying to rip off the insurance company or defraud anyone.  I'm trying to get what I'm due, in accordance with the right and proper terms of the policy. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude
  • wlbaye
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  • From: Black Hills So Dak
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
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Re: You'd think musicians would know how to hear

Heya Zurf,

I went thru a similar deal with my insurance company and they were very good to work with also. They sent out an Insurance Adjsuter and we went thru everything together and he was more than fair. I have had hail damage a few times also and they have always sent out an adjuster to go over the damage with me.
When I had my Marine and Motorsports business, I worked with Insurance Adjusters on a regular basis and they were always fair with the customer, even though sometimes customers expect way more than they should. A lot of times they would just ask me for my opinion on a deal like yours and that would be good enough.
I guess what I'm saying is, they should send out an adjuster and help you out and settle so you are both satisfied.

If they replace your amp they would probably want the old one. Most often they would ask you if you would like to keep it seeing it's working and be compensated for the damage.

Good Luck

Later, Wayne P

wlbaye's Website

  • From: Western Oregon,US
  • Registered: 2008-07-22
  • Posts: 2,498

Re: You'd think musicians would know how to hear

Good Morning Zurf,

  Like Wayne, I have some experience with Insurance Companies from my business as well.  I agree that the Insurance Company Adjuster will likely compensate you for the damaged amp without too much hassel.  Usually the option of buying the damaged amp as salvage will be offered if you ask, and you could retain the wet one for around 10-15$.  If nothing else as a repair part donor.... or if you have the inclination you could "gut it" and build yourself a really nice hardwood cabinet for it and add it to your arsenal as a "custom" piece.

  Adjusters are good folks doing a difficult job (at times), but mostly want to do what is fair all around. 

Good Luck and Take Care;
Doug

"what is this quintessence of dust?"  - Shakespeare
  • From: Tennessee
  • Registered: 2007-08-04
  • Posts: 436

Re: You'd think musicians would know how to hear

Just to help them put it in perspective zurf tell them this....if you get a dent in your car...even though the car still drives and runs just like always...you are able to get an estimate and get it fixed...and that is all you are asking them to do is say that this part of the property has been damaged and needs to be repaired.

  • Zurf
  • Zurf
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Re: You'd think musicians would know how to hear

As far as them wanting the unit, that'd be fine.  I'd have no problem with that if they compensated me for it. 

Riddler - good analogy.  I'll use it if this comes up again.  Sure, the body's all banged up, but the car still goes.  You got it to go didn't you?  So what's the problem?  Perfect.  Love it. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

6 Reply by flester (edited by flester 2009-08-24 10:51:51)

  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 162

Re: You'd think musicians would know how to hear

I'd agree with DOUG_SMITH, just get a competent woodworker (yourself ?) to build a new case, out of solid wood instead of MDF. Once you've given up on the insurance route, that is. I accept that insurance employees are just doing their job. However from my dealings with that industry, it seems to be structured so that you just give up after a while unless the amounts are huge.

  • From: Calgary, AB
  • Registered: 2006-07-17
  • Posts: 182

Re: You'd think musicians would know how to hear

RED TAPE!  so frustrating.....good luck Zurf....keep us posted!

That's All Non-Violence is
--- Organized Love---
        Joan Baez

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8 Reply by Zurf (edited by Zurf 2009-08-24 13:29:10)

  • Zurf
  • Zurf
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Re: You'd think musicians would know how to hear

flester wrote:

I'd agree with DOUG_SMITH, just get a competent woodworker (yourself ?) to build a new case, out of solid wood instead of MDF. Once you've given up on the insurance route, that is. I accept that insurance employees are just doing their job. However from my dealings with that industry, it seems to be structured so that you just give up after a while unless the amounts are huge.

I am a professional negotiator who once made a tax attorney working for a state revenue office cry.  (really, I did)  Giving up on the basis of annoying administration is not in my nature. 

And to be clear, the frustration I am having is not with my insurance company.  They have been treating me fairly.  The frustration is with the repair technicians who won't put down on paper what they have just told me as a customer - that the amp is damaged in such a way that the damage cannot be repaired.  Why would they be willing to tell me face-to-face something that they refuse to stand behind?  And if they are willing to stand behind it, why won't they?  It's annoying. 

I'm not going to get a new case built.  The loudspeaker still goes thump, thump, thump, but it is damaged as well.  It is at least stained, and the center portion is pushed instead of sticking out.  So it doesn't go thump, thump, thump with the fidelity it is supposed to.  It could be used as a stage throughput, which is how I used to use it, but it will mildew in time and it already smells funky, as MDF will do once it gets wet.  Funky in a bass practice amp is only good for sound, not for smell. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 162

Re: You'd think musicians would know how to hear

Really I was referring to the 'system' in this country,  which includes insurance companies and other companies who derive major parts of their income from insurance claims (like car bodywork repairers for example).

  • From: NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-26
  • Posts: 4,320

Re: You'd think musicians would know how to hear

Zurf... truly the saddest thing about this is that guy could have made a nice new SALE off of you if ONLY he would have written on paper what he said in person.  Stupid people!  Have you considered going somewhere else to see if they would?  "Listen man, I want a new one.  Is this damaged?  Yes?  Good.  Write that down on paper and when I get my cash I'll be back HERE to buy the new one."  Sometimes you have to push people driven by money, WITH money!  Maybe the store manager (who probably makes most of his money off commissioned sales) would be the person to talk to.  Maybe not this store,but one that primarily is into retail sales and also has a repair tech on staff.  Keep looking... I think there's a way to find the right place that will stand behind their opinion with the hope of getting some money out of the deal themselves!  Good luck!

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

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  • Zurf
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Re: You'd think musicians would know how to hear

I got the amp sent off by a Guitar Center to their subcontractor, but talked to the subcontractor directly.  The Guitar Center guy who was writing up the instructions left the last "s" off from "assess" in "assess for insurance."  There was too much truth in the statement for me to attempt to correct him. 

The technician at Guitar Center's subcontractor understood what needed to be done.  Seriously, it's not like I'm trying to commit some sort of fraud.  You can look at the case and see clearly that it is swollen and that the cover is coming off.  The cover can be glued back on, but the MDF in the case will ALWAYS be swollen, and the manufacturer doesn't sell replacement cases.  Further, the paper cone (did you catch that PAPER cone) did not react well to be wet, so the fidelity of sound is lost.  Fortunately, this technician said he could identify the problems with it (as did my four year old) and that he was willing to put down in writing that the amp could not be repaired.  That's all I needed.  The true and legitimate facts so that I can present them to the insurance company. 

My local guitar shop doesn't sell or service this brand of amp, so they couldn't do this for me.  However, I'll be buying a replacement amp (and maybe trade my solid-body electric on an acoustic/electric guitar to go with it) at the local shop. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude