Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

I’ve lived all my life in the embrace of NHS and I’m grateful for it.
All my family and myself have benefited from it and in general has received excellent treatment. I speak as I find….

The concept of free medical health care has become diluted over the years mainly from the great success of the system. People live longer healthier lives and because they do greater and greater demands are placed on the  huge complex system.
Still it works and works well for most of the people who need medical attention of all kinds. With such a huge organisation problems occur  it’s inevitable but if your on the receiving end of the problem it’s no comfort to know it.
What the future will bring to NHS only time will tell. I only hope it will survive much as it now but change will happen I know.
Socialism in UK has more or less been buried by Labour over 12years for good and bad and mostly there’s not much difference in policies between the major political parties..
ark

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

topdown wrote:

That is far from true. In fact, the exact opposite is true. It is illegal for a hospital to deny care. One of the reasons health care is so expensive here is because of the uninsured (many of whom are in the country illegally) who get virtually free care. Well, free to them anyway - the rest of us pay for it.

I was writing a diatribe in response to this.  I will abbreviate it briefly.  Whether people are here legally or not, the issue of health care remains.  Wherever people are they will have medical needs.  Add to that the general knowledge that there are many illegal aliens here.  Now that we have the recognition of it, how should we as a society address it?  I'm not going to give my answer, because that would take the thread down a political path that I do not wish to go.  I will leave the question unanswered for others to consider the options on their own. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

Reading this again reminded me of another part of the Health system here.

As part of the UK's membership of the EU, there is now an arrangement with all other EU states that you can get medical treatment throughout the EU. You get a card from the UK Gov't  and by showing it in Roumania, Italy, Germany, the hospital can claim back the cost from the UK Govt. It's in the back of my passport.

I suppose that's socialist too !

"Don't play what's there, play what's not there." Miles Davis

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

After 2 colon surgeries in the year 2000  I can not bash our healthcare. I had a  doctor friend on the east coast, that researched my area and recommended a doctor to me. I had very good care from the doctors to all the nurses and others.

The big problem I had was with the Insurance company that picked and chose what they would pay for. I was stuck, after a year of fighting and going to the state's Insurance Commisioner with about half of the bill. It was a very bad experience.

If you have a choice pick and choose your Insurance wisely, cheaper is not always better when it comes to health insurance.

Later, Wayne P

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

wlbaye wrote:

After 2 colon surgeries in the year 2000  I can not bash our healthcare. I had a  doctor friend on the east coast, that researched my area and recommended a doctor to me. I had very good care from the doctors to all the nurses and others.

The big problem I had was with the Insurance company that picked and chose what they would pay for. I was stuck, after a year of fighting and going to the state's Insurance Commisioner with about half of the bill. It was a very bad experience.

If you have a choice pick and choose your Insurance wisely, cheaper is not always better when it comes to health insurance.

I don't have any complaints about how I personally have received care either.  When I was a child, I had some birth defects that caused a lot of care regarding my legs.  Special shoes, leg braces, special therapies, etc.  What insurance didn't cover, a charity called "Crippled Childrens Fund" did- or almost did.  Even recently I required several surgeries in my throat and another on my shoulder, and my doctor has started to ask about when I intend to have my other shoulder fixed.  My daughter also requires some surgical procedures annually to assess recovery/worsening of a condition.  For all these surgeries, we had some expenses surely, but almost all of it was covered by insurance.  I think we were out about $5,000/year for the family max deductable.  In my situation, with a good paying job at a stable company, that's not too bad.  I'm extremely grateful for my job, for my insurance, and for the high quality medical care I've received.  So I'm not knocking our system whatsoever.

However, I am recognizing that my positive experience is far from universal.  There are many, including both of my sisters and my father and step-mother, who are at the mercy of social programs.  Therefore, when I advocate for social programs, bear in mind that my opinion is partially tainted by selfish motivation of looking out for my family. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

Looking out for the family is first and foremost. I know from my experience that maybe I would have been better off without insurance. Getting out of the hospital the 2nd time and unable to work and then find out you owe a hospital $ 50,000 is mighty bad news.
But on the bright side the doctors told me 10 yrs before my experience most folks died before the first surgery so I guess struggling along and getting that bill paid sure beat being 6ft under and pushin up daisies.

Later, Wayne P

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

About five years ago I was sent for a scan to check breathing problims, the scan also showed

a shadow in my left Kidney, it turned out to be cancer.  I was seen a week before Christmas

of that year, and by the 7th of January after that Christmas I was in hospital and had the


kidney removed and then  after a month got the news that the cancer had not got outside the

kidney. That was in Belfast on the NHS. No waiting, no cost.

Luck and Health to all!!!

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

My father had an experience almost exactly like Headcase's, but before he retired and still had insurance through his employer. 

What I'm seeing here is that health care DELIVERY, both in the U.S. and the UK, appears to be done by competent and caring professionals and that the key difference between these delivery systems deals with who pays, how much, and when.  That is enlightening.  Thanks all who contributed and shared their thoughts and experiences.  Thanks especially for keeping it from getting political, which I knew was a risk going in. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

topdown wrote:
jerome.oneil wrote:

The US system is Pay or Die.   We have very few programs for health care, and those only cover the elderly and the handicapped.

Regular people get bupkis.

That is far from true. In fact, the exact opposite is true. It is illegal for a hospital to deny care. One of the reasons health care is so expensive here is because of the uninsured (many of whom are in the country illegally) who get virtually free care. Well, free to them anyway - the rest of us pay for it.

Roughly half of the 12 million illegal immigrants in the U.S. don't have health insurance, according to the Pew Hispanic Center, a nonpartisan research group. Like others who can't afford medical care, illegal immigrants tend to flock to hospital emergency rooms, which, under a 1986 law, can't turn people away, even if they can't pay. Emergency-room visits, where treatment costs are much higher than in clinics, jumped 32% nationally between 1996 and 2006, the latest data available.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1250272 … #printMode

Illegal immigration has nothing to do with it, and my statement is exactly true.

It is against the law for a hospital to deny you life saving care.  If you show up at an emergency room hemorrhaging blood out your bum because your prostate cancer has metastasized into your colon, they'll treat that, stabilize you,  and ensure you don't bleed to death.   You'll die from the cancer in short order after they get you home, but hey, at least you got some medical care.

And if your 17 year old son comes down with testicular cancer, and your insurance caps out at a million dollars lifetime, yet the treatment for it runs upwards of two million dollars, your options are to go bankrupt, or watch your child die.

I've personally seen both of those scenarios here in the states.  Neither would happen in Europe or Canada.  But I defy you to show up to an emergency room and ask for a prostate exam, or a checkup and cancer screen. 

In nations with socialized medicine, they have lower costs, cover more people, and most importantly, they have better health outcomes than we do in the states.

Someday we'll win this thing...

[url=http://www.aclosesecond.com]www.aclosesecond.com[/url]

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

^ Can you cite a single specific case where hospital care was denied because of the inability to pay? It simply is not true. There are numerous government programs already in place that pay for health care for low income and uninsured patients.

Government programs directly cover 27.8% of the population (83 million), including the elderly, disabled, children, veterans, and some of the poor, and federal law mandates public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay. Public spending accounts for between 45% and 56.1% of U.S. health care spending.

Government funded programs include:

    * Medicare, generally covering citizens and long-term residents 65 years and older and the disabled.
    * Medicaid, generally covering low income people in certain categories, including children, pregnant women, and the disabled. (Administered by the states.)
    * State Children's Health Insurance Program, which provides health insurance for low-income children who do not qualify for Medicaid. (Administered by the states, with matching state funds.)

Now I agree - Our system is definately broke and needs reform. I just don't agree with the government taking it over. I can't think of a single government program that is run more efficiently than the private sector (i.e. Post Office vs. FedEx), and the one's they do run (Social Security, Medicare, etc) are all failing.

Rule No. 1 - If it sounds good - it is good!

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

do we really have to argue over this?

is there an arguement brewing?

was there one about to start?
was there the potential for one?

lol

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

topdown wrote:

^ Can you cite a single specific case where hospital care was denied because of the inability to pay?

Certainly.  Walk into an emergency room and ask for a prostrate exam.  Tell them you have no money, and no insurance.

Let us know when the exam is complete.

Emergency room care is not health care.

Someday we'll win this thing...

[url=http://www.aclosesecond.com]www.aclosesecond.com[/url]

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

Ah - The ol' preventative care argument - Another BS spin that has increased the costs of health care in the US.

According to the CBO and the New England Journal of Medicine:

A study in the journal Circulation found that for cardiovascular diseases and diabetes, "if all the recommended prevention activities were applied with 100 percent success," the prevention would cost almost 10 times as much as the savings, increasing the country's total medical bill by 162 percent. Elmendorf additionally cites a definitive assessment in the New England Journal of Medicine that reviewed hundreds of studies on preventive care and found that more than 80 percent of preventive measures added to medical costs. ... Read More

http://townhall.com/columnists/CharlesK … yth?page=2

Rule No. 1 - If it sounds good - it is good!

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

upyerkilt wrote:

do we really have to argue over this?

is there an arguement brewing?

was there one about to start?
was there the potential for one?

lol

Par for the course here in US.
Conservative vs. liberal, republican vs. democrat, Limbaugh vs. Maher,
Fox news vs. MSNBC, Tommy Bahama vs Thrift Stores(haha).

The line of seperation here in the US is ugly and absurd, freedom of speech is nice though.

Nice points on both sides nontheless. These lines of seperation need to be replaced with circles of compromise.

Give everything but up.

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

Yes I hope that compromise comes soon cause the Change, I've been waitin for better hurry cause the change, in pocket is darn near gone!

Later, Wayne P

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

yep Toney, yer right freedom of speech is a wonderful thing but I also believe knowing when to keep quiet is also good, even though i have not mastered this yet lol

if people are face to face they can have a better debate, things can be agreed to disagree quicker but online it can go on for months. During these months the folk involoved start thinking about it during the day and start thinking of things to answer back with. When the other person reads this reply they get more irate and think of what to type next. Because folk are typing behind a screen the other cannot see facial expression, which mean a lot in a debate/argument/disscussion.
Something so simply can get taken very much the wrong way and when the other tries to explain, it looks like they are wrong even though they maybe right.

I dont even know if that makes much sense but i know what iu am thinking

Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

I'm not sure that Jerome was talking about preventive care. Over here preventive care is about not smoking, taking exercise, drinking moderately etc

It seems to me that it's about when a worry turns into a crisis. I want to be able to ask about my worries.

If I'm bleeding where I shouldn't be bleeding, or finding it difficult to climb the stairs, then I want to be able to ask a Doctor. That's not preventative care, it's medical care. if I have to wait until I hit the ground, then that's no care at all.

"Don't play what's there, play what's not there." Miles Davis

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

Topdown.  Step away from the studies.  Do you really suppose that having an annual physical is a bad thing? 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

Not at all - and these type of things (minor consults) could paid paid out of pocket in a worse case scenario. It's the ridiculous rate of advanced, extremely expensive testing (MRI's, CT Scans, etc.) that have added substantially to the nation's health care bill.

Indeed, perhaps the most significant reason Americans are drowning in health care debt may shock you: Americans are getting far too much unnecessary care. Of our total $2.3 trillion health care bill last year, a whopping $500 billion to $700 billion was spent on treatments, tests, and hospitalizations that did nothing to improve our health. Even worse, new evidence suggests that too much health care may actually be killing us. According to estimates by Elliott Fisher, M.D., a noted Dartmouth researcher, unnecessary care leads to the deaths of as many as 30,000 Medicare recipients annually.

Rule No. 1 - If it sounds good - it is good!

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

Howdy I think it's time for a time out and decide which one you prefer ?




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2JDMkU5 … playnext=1


or kick back and pop a cool one or light one up and enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-jImA0u … eature=fvw

I was afraid we were headin towards politics.

Later, Wayne P

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

OK.  We've turned the corner from what is to what ought to be.  I was interested in learning about people's real world experiences in health care delivery systems other than our own.  This thread was meant to chase away some personal boogeymen for me, to see if the shadows being cast on those systems are fair representations of the systems themselves.  It was not meant to discuss any particular bills or causes or what-have-you. 

All are entitled to their opinions on what ought to be done, if anything, of course.  I have my own.  However, I did not mean to share those here. 

The purpose of the thread has been achieved.  Moderators, please feel free to lock the thread or pull it if it turns into more of a political "ought to be" discussion.

Thanks,
Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

Zurf wrote:

Moderators, please feel free to lock the thread or pull it if it turns into more of a political "ought to be" discussion.

Thanks,
Zurf

here here
where

there.

Good call.
Closing it would be the best idea.

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending

Re: UK and Canadian Patients...

Your wish is my command Your Royal Highness.

Is anything really made up of zeros and ones??