[ Closed ] UK and Canadian Patients... (Page 1 of 2)

Sorry I couldn't read all of your post Zurf - the only reason I am here, alive and able to write this is that I fought the NHS tooth and nail, so many mis-diagnoses, mistreatments and scars - internal and external - and conditions that I didn't have when 'treatment' started that I will probably have for life!!!

I'm the wrong person to have begun reading your post. Sorry!

I have found over the last few years the NHS has become a lesser reflection of what it was. Consecutive Conservative governments have tried their hardest to rid itself of this money pit, and even the Labour government has tried cutting back, preferring to spend our taxes on saving banks and funding unwinable wars.

here's an example;

you phone up your local GP surgery to ask for an appointment, they tell you that all the appointments for today have been filled, so you say OK, can I make one for tomorrow, they say phone back in the morning about 8.30....
so you phone back at 8.30, but you cant get through!!! so you keep trying. then at 9.00, you get an answer and they say....you guessed it, sorry all today's appointments have gone....

You eventually get to see your doctor, he says what's wrong, and you say nothing, I've recovered now waiting for an appointment!   You get the idea?

My wife suffered with abdominal problem's for about 6 months and lost half her body weight before the surgeons  decided that there was something wrong. They eventually removed half her bowel and a lump the size of a tennis ball. She's good now, put the weight back on and Ill be eternally grateful to the surgeon.

It's not the fault of the medical staff, as they are as good if not better than medics anywhere in the world, it's just that because it's free, people will abuse the system. People from abroad come and use the service we have paid for all our lives, for free! And yes, you can jump the queue by going private, which is what our government would like, which means you pay twice!

Phill

In Canada if one was to break ones leg all that the person does is go to the hospital, it is put in a cast and he goes home the same day. No charge. If it is busy at the hospital then you are put on a priority list and you must wait...Free of Charge. If you have to stay overnight or for an extended period of time it is free unless you want a semi-private/private room or sum perks in which case it's gonna cost you or you better have insurance at work.
Certain drugs are free (paid for by taxes) as are certain treatments. I don't know which ones so I can't help you there but I can say for me...I have had my ankle wired together for twenty years due to an accident...No Charge. I have had a bad back due to baseball with max time off of one year. Therapy was covered by work insurance lost work time covered by insurance and Government benefits.

In the last year I have developed a condition that is not good. In two weeks I will have a full body MRI...No charge. Lots of blood tests...No charge. Medications...No insurance...Charge!!!Damn.

When people leave the country to look for alternate therapy I believe it is more because they can afford to travel to get help, not because of the waiting, more because they can afford to try what ever it takes to get better. If that is what it takes then good on them.

Hope this answers a few of your questions

Kenny

Thanks all, this is helpful.  And thanks also for staying on topic and off politics (except for the occaissional necessary barb which I think we can all forgive). 

I have found medicine in the U.S. to be awkward at best.  I've always had insurance, but not always good insurance.  I had stomach pain for ten years going to either campus doctors while in college or then to HMO doctors when I had poor insurance.  None did me any good.  When I finally was able to see a real honest-to-goodness general practitioner with a lifetime of experience, he diagnosed the problem and identified an appropriate therapy before he finished his cup of tea (which he had carried into the exam room with him).  So long as I stay on the drugs, I don't have the pain.  Ten years it took, but I had been to the doctor's and it hadn't cost me much.  Later in life I began to get food stuck in my throat.  Now, this oddly was the result of two things we already knew about my health, but I guess not many people have the two of them working together to screw up their lives like I do, so no one thought of it.  It went on for a few years and a few emergency surgeries until a specialist who was called in to do one of the surgeries took an interest and took me on as a patient.  I never would have been able to get him as a specialist except for the luck of him being on call one night when I needed emergency surgery.  He worked with another specialist to figure out how the two things inter-acted on me, and now I'm right as rain (so long as I take the pills).  So, I didn't pay much.  But I'm not entirely sure I got good care, but for the good Lord's blessing and the fortune to have an emergency when the right person was on call. 

So, I guess those with insurance don't pay much.  As far as the claim that keeps getting made about America having the best health care in the world, well I have my doubts.  We have very good health care, that's certain.  But I surely have doubts about the best in the world. 

Now, those without insurance.  Totally screwed. 

- Zurf

Yes, American doctors are worshipping the almighty dollar.  This is evidenced by the fact that all doctors offices are overbooked, so you rarely get in at your appointed time.  No patients, no money, so they book extra patients daily just in case someone doesn't show or they diagnose, or appease the patient and send them on their way quicker. Next!  And medical costs are sky high, even with insurance, or because of insurance.

So she received treatment, then, and the cost of treatment was covered by her automobile insurance.  Sounds like it's possible that the Health Services decision didn't have anything to do with her cancer, but had a good bit to do with the fact that the other taxpayers of the country shouldn't have to pay for something that was already covered by insurance.  I don't find that an altogether unreasonable decision. 

- Zurf

There is an incredible shortage of general practitioners here in the States as well, primarily because specialists in the medical field (cardiac surgeons, orthopedics, etc...) make a whole lot more money than a family practitioner or GP does.

I know a lot of Canadians and Europeans, and I don't know any that would trade what they have for what we have, which is essentially "Pay or Die."

In Ireland, workers pay PRSI (Pay Related Social Insurance).  This entitles you to use our NHS.  However because of the delays and waiting list, you have no choice but to purchase private health insurance.  This costs a big chunk of money.

However unless you earn minimum wage you don’t qualify for a medical card, so you only qualify for parts of the NHS.

Therefore when you go to your GP, dentist or optician you have to pay.  A GP will charge up to €50 per visit.  Then you pay for your prescription and your drugs.

So a working Joe on average wages will pay for PRSI and private insurance amd after that will still pay to access the services.

It sucks!!

Skimming the article, I'd say yes.  It is ONE accurate picture of the U.S. system.  It is not indicative of all health care here, just as any single anecdote from the UK could not possibly represent the whole of NHS.  Nevertheless, I can say without additional qualification that her story is easy to believe and far from unique. 

Many people talk here about their fears that health care will be rationed in a government run system.  Her point that health care is ALREADY rationed in the U.S. is absolutely and entirely correct.  That's not to say that health care wouldn't be rationed in a government run system, but that the rationing would be nothing new.  Furthermore, rationing decisions will actually be decisions rather than accidents of financial standing.  The only issue is who do we trust more to ration our health care, nameless and faceless beaurocrats in the government or nameless and faceless beancounters in the insurance industry?  Neither option is terribly appealing. 

Edit to add: While the 16% figure doesn't surprise me in the least, and I have seen higher estimates even than that, I think that it falls whoafully short if one were to take into account secondary effects.  It is my opinion that our current health care insurance/payment system prevents innovation and entrepreneurialism, and therefore limits our GDP growth.  I further submit that this downward pressure on GDP growth is substantial. 

- Zurf

I can't speak for the UK in general or Ireland in particular, but in the U.S. if you don't have family to take care of you, then you spend your last days in pain and misery eager for death to come as relief.   But hey, at least we're not socialists, right? 

- Zurf

I am
Or I would like to be as comunism doesnt work next best thing really I think.

Zurf, I can talk for all the UK and Southern Ireland   whether they like it or not.

Folk with or without families that get NHS care still spend their last few days/hours etc in pain due to costs.
Because NHS is free care it is not always the best care. There has been a lot of documented cases where the NHS have said no to certain drugs because of the cost.
So really they are saying their life is not wirht as much as money.
I can see their point too though. Lots of folk want the expensive drugs to prolong their life for a few more months or years but in the end they will go and they money could be used elsewhere.
In my opinion ( and I speak for the world here, not just the UK and Ireland )
If there was £500 left in the NHS fund I would rather it got spent on a child to be cured  rather than someone over 50 prolonging their life for a few more months. But when you are in a situation like this you want it all.
Money should never come into it for health care no matter the illness, no matter how long it will last, but it does.
And i am on a ramble here, I just cannot stop my fingers going here.

I dont know how I would have coped if I had to pay for care if I were in the U.S. Would I have paid for minor things like getting cysts cuts out, getting my jaw fixed, dental care when I was in no pain, my nose job to breath better through it. Would I have went to the docs with a chest pain that went away ?
vasectomy is also free! I bet the catholic church hate that idea ,lol. But this also is a demonstration of wasted money. To go private it only costs about £150 ( so I am told) So what does a guy want? spend £150 on the snip or pay £100,000's on  bringing up a child?
If someone doesnt want a child that much then £150 is a very small amount to pay to get knackered yet so many of these Ops get done free of charge.

I really think now we in the UK take this NHS far too much for granted. Apart from my jaw which I really needed done I dont think I would have bothered with anything else if I had to pay for it. I would even have paid for my jaw to be fixed.

Ken
For and on behalf of the UK,ireland and the world

Yes, you'd pay for everything.  Or you'd pay for insurance, which may or may not pay for everything.

The US system is Pay or Die.   We have very few programs for health care, and those only cover the elderly and the handicapped.

Regular people get bupkis.