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Guitar chord forum - chordie → Music theory → Quick Scales and Key question
I've been doing a bit of swatting on Music Theory, but it seem's bits here and bob's there, and it dosen't really connect....
I know Major Scales go TTSTTTS
So for example in G, its
G F A A# C E F# G (Is that correct?)
So if a song is in the KEY of G, would that mean the chords would be based around the same?
I hope that question makes sense!
Cheers!
hi doctorzoidberg the G major scale is G A B C D E F#G and all the chords are derived from the notes in the scale major is 135 minor is 1 b3 5 the steps or intervals in any major scale are whole whole half whole whole whole half or 1 1 1/2 1 1 1 1/2
My mistake, For some reason i Put F after G haha!
Also, thanks for the info 
Your welcome and happy hunting
Also, thanks for the info
I've been doing a bit of swatting on Music Theory, but it seem's bits here and bob's there, and it dosen't really connect....
I know Major Scales go TTSTTTS
So for example in G, its
G F A A# C E F# G (Is that correct?)
I think you've misunderstood how a scale gets built. It's not a matter of sharps in a specific place, it's a matter of tone intervals. The sharps or flats are an artifact of that, not the cause.
A major scale is the following series of intervals.
Root WHole WHole Half Whole Whole Whole Half
I II III IV V VI VII Root
If you take a look at your fretboard, the distance between any two consecutive frets on a string is a half step. Skip a fret, and you've got a whole step. So you can play a major scale on any open string with the following frets.
Open 2 4 5 7 9 11 12
Now, that's a bit of work if you want to run scales as part of a solo line, or something. So you can play that same interval pattern without moving your hands up or down the neck.
I'd reccomend reading up the scales primer (http://www.chordie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=8133) to learn more about scales, and how they apply to pretty much everything you'll do on the fretboard.
Good luck!
all scales (as far as I know) are based off the "C" major scale.
C~D~E~F~G~A~B~C that is also Do~Ray~Me~Fo~So~La~Te~DO
also look at the distance between notes (hole step ~hole~hole~half~hole~hole~half
all hole notes no sharps or flats. Now number the notes 1 thu 7.
now put numbers 1-4-5~ 2 & 6 together (C,F,&G ~D & Aminor)
now you have the chords for the key of "C"
To make a "C" chord your triad would be 1~3~5 (C-E-G) those notes played together make a "C" chord
for other keys just slide you numbers over
For a clearer understanding look up the nashville number system
all scales (as far as I know) are based off the "C" major scale.
C~D~E~F~G~A~B~C that is also Do~Ray~Me~Fo~So~La~Te~DO
also look at the distance between notes (hole step ~hole~hole~half~hole~hole~half
all hole notes no sharps or flats. Now number the notes 1 thu 7.
now put numbers 1-4-5~ 2 & 6 together (C,F,&G ~D & Aminor)
now you have the chords for the key of "C"
To make a "C" chord your triad would be 1~3~5 (C-E-G) those notes played together make a "C" chord
for other keys just slide you numbers over
For a clearer understanding look up the nashville number system
All major scales, including C major, are based on that interval pattern. They aren't based on any one tonic, though.
First let me say I am self taut and this is my first time using these forms. So bear with me.
You are right. There is a little more to it than just sliding the numbers over. You must keep the same interval or distance between notes. So lets now look at the key of "D"
Key of "D" (note: on sheet music the key is shown using {##})
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
D E F# G A B C# (notice you now have two # notes)
w w h w w w h (note w=whole step ~ h=half step)
Now put 1~4~5 together, D~G~A Your two off chords are 2 & 6
(Note The 6 note is a minor chord, 99% of the time, Thus making
Bm the relative minor too "D" major. Also the 2 note can be a minor chord sometimes
Now for the triad that makes a "D" take your 1~3~5 (D~F#~A)
So if you was at the piano striking those 3 notes together will ring a "D" chord. Now lets look at a "D7" it takes Four (4) notes
played together, again use 1~3~5 but add in 7 thus (D~F#~A~C#)
Like I said I have never taken a music class or lessons. Seems I learned it the hard way. So if i have gotten any of this wrong
please point it out to me.
Respectfully,
Les Carney
Cave City, Ky.
lescarney@hotmail.com
First let me say I am self taut and this is my first time using these forms. So bear with me.
You are right. There is a little more to it than just sliding the numbers over. You must keep the same interval or distance between notes. So lets now look at the key of "D"
Key of "D" (note: on sheet music the key is shown using {##})
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
D E F# G A B C# (notice you now have two # notes)
w w h w w w h (note w=whole step ~ h=half step)
That about sums it up. There is a sticky post on how scales are formed, and how they relate to each other.
If you want to take the next step, find out how that interval pattern can be used to play seven separate scales. It's in there, too!
Again you are right. all other scales are based in the "C" major.
which is a 7 note scale a pentatonic 9pen meaning 5 is a 5 note scale you just need to learn which two (2) notes to drop.
then you have your modes. I am starting to reach my level in incompetence (lol) how ever we are properly getting to in depth
for my writing abilities.
Respectfully,
Les Carney
my answer to the original question and the moment may well have passed is yes the expected chords in the key of G are based on the scale notes
however it is important to note that ii, iii and vii chords are usually minor chords.
so we have -
G Am Bm C D Em
as to the Vii note, theres no chord which can be constructed on the vii note. some people use a dimished chord. i tend to flatten the note by a semitone and play F. it works for me and is fairly common in rock
by the way A#. I don't think so ! A whole tone up from A is B
as to the Vii note, theres no chord which can be constructed on the vii note. some people use a dimished chord.
For th VII, a triad will produce a diminished chord, which is why people play it. 
If you play a 7 over it, it would be a M7b5.
Those chords are built the same as any other chord. Take the I III and V of the modal scale for that position, and that's your chord. For the VII, that's the Locrian scale. For the ii, that's Dorian. For the iii, that's Phrygian. For the vii, it's Aeolian, or natural minor.
Jerome
you're right. I thought the diminished included non scale notes but having checked its a perfect triad. just like you said.
how could I make such an error ? is there something weird about diminished chords. or is it augmented chords that are weird. perhaps it just me
I should have said the vii chord is a diminished chord. its not much used in modern rock and pop so depending on your preferred style you may want to think about alternatives. a common substitute in Rock is to use a chord on the flattened VII note. In the Scale of G that is F major.
j
Well, diminished chords are weird. If you consider the inversions, there is really only four of them. I sat through a workshop with a bunch of freaky jazz guys once and they spent a lot of time on it. They'd break out some crazy stuff, and noodle all day, because the scale simple doesn't resolve anywhere.
It's just bizzare, but when it's done right, I like it.
Jerome
I have an interesting book by Rikky Rooksby called "How to write song on Guitar." it has a extensive guide to chord progressions and chord changes with detailed descriptions of each and a big library of examples. its been a big help in writing songs. you seem very knowledgeable on the subject and I wondered whether you had read it.
J
Jerome
I have an interesting book by Rikky Rooksby called "How to write song on Guitar." it has a extensive guide to chord progressions and chord changes with detailed descriptions of each and a big library of examples. its been a big help in writing songs. you seem very knowledgeable on the subject and I wondered whether you had read it.
I haven't read it, but I just ordered it on Amazon.
When I write songs, I tend to go holistically. That is, I get a bit of a lyric or a line, and then it grows from there. It may take months for the whole thing to gestate, but when it's done, I'll sit down and write the whole thing down in an hour.
I do tend to be heavily theory oriented when I write. I like to keep things "in key" because it keeps things simple, and I never have to guess as to what the next chord or note should be, or if it will sound "right."
Jerome
I hope it lives up to the billing I gave it.
I've been looking at my set list in terms of chord progressions. I've always kept to simple songs because I find them easy to learn. These are the main progressions I've identified.
So Lonely (the Police) I V VI IV.
Honky Tonk Women ( The Stones) I IV I II V. The II is a major or a 7th depending on the transcription. Thats not the expected chord. It adds to the charm
Simple Man ( Skynard) I V VI.
Knocking on Heaven's Door I V II I V IV. The II is a m7 in my transcription.
I shall be released - Bob Dylan I II III IV V. The II is probably intended to slide up to the III because its a weak chord change otherwise.
Hey Joe I bIII (major) IV bVI (major) bVII (major). the three flat majors are fairly commonplace in Rock but Hendrix probably did it simply to defy convention.
Passenger - Iggy Pop. all efforts at categorisation from the Chordie transcriptions have defeated me. its a four chord progression of a distinctly mongrel variety - but easy to learn.
cheers
John
Jerome
I have an interesting book by Rikky Rooksby called "How to write song on Guitar." it has a extensive guide to chord progressions and chord changes with detailed descriptions of each and a big library of examples. its been a big help in writing songs. you seem very knowledgeable on the subject and I wondered whether you had read it.
So this arrived yesterday, and while I didn't have a whole lot of time to jump into detail with it, I did give it a quick skim before bed. I think I'm going to enjoy going over it. The author seems to take the same veiw of song writing and theory that I do.
To the #12 post.
The chords for the key of "G" are G - C - D and A & E minor
Respectfully,
Les
To the #12 post.
The chords for the key of "G" are G - C - D and A & E minor
Respectfully,
Les
To the #12 post.
The chords for the key of "G" are G - C - D and A & E minorRespectfully,
Les
B minor as well (for the III) and F# diminsihed (for the VII).
To the #12 post.
The chords for the key of "G" are G - C - D and A & E minorRespectfully,
Les
Les,
Have a gander at this;
http://12bar.de/chords.php
I have a book that simply says in a major scale 145 are always major 2 3 &6 are minor and the 7th is diminished so in practice in the key of Cmaj the 7th is a Bdim (lowered not flat) this holds true for any major key
each major key has a relative minor which is the 6th tone or degree of the scale. So for the key of "G" the relative minor is E
(Note that sometimes the 2nd degree note can be a minor but it is very rare)
Relative Major and Minor
A F#
B G#
C A
D B
E C#
F D
G E
Respectfully,
Les
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