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Guitar chord forum - chordie → Music theory → Signature Rhythm (strum) Pattern (Standard Notation) for each song
I think there should be a place in each song in Chordie for a Signature Rhythm (strum) Pattern (Standardized Notation) associated with each song. That is the missing piece that adds life to each song. Does anyone else agree?
I agree, to a degree.
Rhythm and such is best expressed in standard notation, which is a sometimes complicated beast. Tab and chord charts are notoriously bad at expressing that kind of stuff. There is no easy way to express it except in standard notation, and creating legible standard notation for display on the websites is really tough.
Does anyone know of a way to do that?
I agree, to a degree.
Rhythm and such is best expressed in standard notation, which is a sometimes complicated beast. Tab and chord charts are notoriously bad at expressing that kind of stuff. There is no easy way to express it except in standard notation, and creating legible standard notation for display on the websites is really tough.
Does anyone know of a way to do that?
Uh yeah, listen to the song you wish to learn( many, many times, without exterior interruptions) and work it out, the best you can. Or create a feel for a song you wish to create, the best you can create. No musician can become great and achieve "it" from reading some scribble scrabble that someone way beyond their level transcribes. A scientific approach to an art form is gonna sound robotic and absent of passion. Put your hours in and make it hurt.............
Well, Mozart, Beethoven, Paganinni, etc... seemed to do pretty well expressing their art using standard notation, so I can only assume you have either very limited musical experience (probably self taught?), or don't read it. I'm going to guess a little bit of both.
Standard notation provides you the tools necessary to describe inflection, tempo change, volume, and every other aspect of song that you might care to know about. It's the medium that artists use to express music. Your feelings on the matter don't change that.
Well, Mozart, Beethoven, Paganinni, etc... seemed to do pretty well expressing their art using standard notation, so I can only assume you have either very limited musical experience (probably self taught?), or don't read it. I'm going to guess a little bit of both.
Standard notation provides you the tools necessary to describe inflection, tempo change, volume, and every other aspect of song that you might care to know about. It's the medium that artists use to express music. Your feelings on the matter don't change that.
If you want to call playing music professionally for 25 years and supporting my family by doing so, then I guess my musical experiences are "limited". I played 375 gigs last year, taugh 26 students how to play guitar. After a few lessons on general instrument knowledge and notes and chords, I make an asessment of my students level and ask them which songs they'd like to play. If the song is comprable to the students level, I learn the song and teach it to the student. Works very well for student and instructor. That's my "limited experience"! How many gigs did you play and many students paid you to teach them how to play guitar? Just curious........
I don't know if you noticed or not but Chordie is a guitar tab, guitar chord and lyrics site.(just read the logo) Tabs and chords are much more effective, practical, and applicable than standard notation for the beginning/intermediate guitarist. And I can't say for sure but I'd venture a guess that the beginning/intermediate guitarists make up the vast majority of members here on Chordie.
Refrain from attempting to insult me as a musician, you're way out of line in doing so.
I Hope You Have a Wonderful Day,
SouthPaw41L
I have to agree with Toney, I think the best way to learn songs is listen to the version you like over and over till you can hear it playing in your head,then you will gradually work it out. Also when I'm learning a new song I use youtube to see how others,.play the song.
I don't read music, and when you don't, any visual aid really seems to help,but most of all listen and listen some more to the song your learning.
Later Wayne P
PS ,Sounds like Toney may have had some gunpowder for breakfast.
I also agree with southpaw and wlbaye.
Sir Paul McCartney from the beatles could not read or write usic yet he was very successful. The beatles also played cover versions and how did they do this? Probably by listening to the original over and over wit hpractice.
I can read a little music but mostly I do not bother, I much prefer to listen to the song and get the chords from the internet and learn te song that way. You do not need sheet music with tempos and note etc.
And I do not think Jerome you should be insulting someone you do not know well enough to insult. How many folk did you tutor last year anyway? were you successful?
Ken
jerome.oneil wrote:Well, Mozart, Beethoven, Paganinni, etc... seemed to do pretty well expressing their art using standard notation, so I can only assume you have either very limited musical experience (probably self taught?), or don't read it. I'm going to guess a little bit of both.
Standard notation provides you the tools necessary to describe inflection, tempo change, volume, and every other aspect of song that you might care to know about. It's the medium that artists use to express music. Your feelings on the matter don't change that.
If you want to call playing music professionally for 25 years and supporting my family by doing so, then I guess my musical experiences are "limited". I played 375 gigs last year, taugh 26 students how to play guitar. After a few lessons on general instrument knowledge and notes and chords, I make an asessment of my students level and ask them which songs they'd like to play. If the song is comprable to the students level, I learn the song and teach it to the student. Works very well for student and instructor. That's my "limited experience"! How many gigs did you play and many students paid you to teach them how to play guitar? Just curious........
I don't know if you noticed or not but Chordie is a guitar tab, guitar chord and lyrics site.(just read the logo) Tabs and chords are much more effective, practical, and applicable than standard notation for the beginning/intermediate guitarist. And I can't say for sure but I'd venture a guess that the beginning/intermediate guitarists make up the vast majority of members here on Chordie.
Refrain from attempting to insult me as a musician, you're way out of line in doing so.
I Hope You Have a Wonderful Day,
SouthPaw41L
I'm well aware of your experience, Toney. What I don't see in all of that is "I know how to read standard notation." If you read standard notation, you'll know that there is no tabulature on Earth that can express the same musical intent.
Which is exactly my point. Tab does not show you anything about rhythm. And your idea of just listening to the song is only workable if you're playing someone else's music but is otherwise of no value.
How do expect to listen to a song that isn't recorded anywhere?
Hello Jerome, I think we're getting off course a little,the original post was a question concerning existing songs on chordie so the they would be someone's recorded music and songs that would be covered by alot of us.
Have a good one,
Wayne P
Well Ok then Jerome,
I can read standard notation and did so for several years as a classical guitar student. And why I'm defending my credentials to YOU, I have no earthly idea, but here goes anyhoo. I guess when a non-professional insults and questions a professional, a response is warranted. Truth be told I find it much easier to teach a beginner/intermediate student with tab and chord charts. Also ,rhythym and tempo can be described and/or notated in precise detail using tab. Tab is only as good and useful as the person writing it. There are many variations in writing tab and it is more times than not an individual's signature.
There, I answered your question, now you answer mine. How many gigs do play and how many people have you taught to play guitar ? Very curious to know.
You really don't have to answer, and I'm not trying to 'one-up' you. My intent is to show that are different methods to approach learning and 'your-way' isn't the standard by which all others should heed. One needs to find what works best for themself and go with that. I tried both( standard notation and tabs/chord charts) and the ladder works best for me and those I teach. You'll get what I'm sayin' after you have a few more years of guitar playin' under your belt.(possibly, or........)
Oh yeah, and you also ask, "How do expect to listen to a song that isn't recorded anywhere?" I'll have the person who wrote it play it for me. I'll record it, learn it, write it out, and play/teach it. And if the person isn't around to play said song, I'll work it out from standard notation, it just takes me a bit longer that way..........
I Wish You a Pleasant Evening,
Toney
Music, to my way of thinking, has to be expressed by chord sequence, tabs or music score. They are recognised ways, just as writing is, of passing on information in a convenient form or helping one remember the structure of a piece.
However, when it comes to playing a song, or an instrumental, there is no way of expression how it is done. Performance involves emotion and feelings. The same notes are played of course, but slight variations in volume and note length make the world of difference and these cannot be expressed execpt from the heart.
It is the same with strumming. To learn a new song I normally will play a simple strum to get the melody and chord changes sorted but then as I practice it I will use finger picking, thumb, fingers, flesh, nail or pick with strokes which are difficult to describe to convey the feeling I am trying to put across.
Any music or song played as it is writtten with a standard strum pattern, or note for note as it is written, will sound regimented and flat. What is needed to make the piece something that others want to hear cannot be put on paper.
Roger
For the record, I gig semi-weekly, and have two students. I've been formally trained since 5th grade. I've toured nation wide with nationally ranked DCI caliber drum corps. I've played in jazz and big bands for the majority of my life. I also read standard notation, and know that the OPs question was simply, "How can I determine the rhythm of the songs on Chordie?"
And the undeniable answer is that you can't. Tabs don't provide for it, nor does chords charts. Standard notation provides a way to document every inflection, ghost note, mute, accent, and any other thing the artist may want to provide.
If it sounds flat, that's as a result of the performer, not the notation. Standard notation is used by every school. You don't finish Julliard or Berkley or Cornish without it.
So, do we need it to play the guitar, particularly given the really simple structure of most of the songs here? No. Is it the best way to demonstrate rhythmic intent? Yes.
If it sounds flat, that's as a result of the performer, not the notation. Standard notation is used by every school. You don't finish Julliard or Berkley or Cornish without it.
We spell it Berklee, not Berkley, just for the record.
Ok this is all fascinating stuff, but dont you think that your arguing has taken over the topic somewhat. Dont go off topic administrators thanx. I personally would like to learn from those of you with the knowledge but not if your arrogant and self important.
I'm pretty sure though that this arguement deserves its own thread then you can abuse each other to your hearts content with out disrupting a simple and valid question. As you have.
Shame on you both
Note that as i read other topics that interest me and that i feel are important to me, and your names come up i find myself not wanting to read what you have to say. One arguement has already tarnished your reputations as teachers. remember no one will want to learn from an arrogant fool, and you both seem pretty arrogant to me right now. Although im sure you are both wonderful people in reality but you are not proving this at this point in time.
Oh and one other thing. I feel that a simple strum pattern would be very helpfull for the beginner. Also it might help people to add chords in the correct place in respect to the lyrics as i find that very frustrating with songs that i dont know that well
Ok this is all fascinating stuff, but dont you think that your arguing has taken over the topic somewhat. Dont go off topic administrators thanx. I personally would like to learn from those of you with the knowledge but not if your arrogant and self important.
I'm pretty sure though that this arguement deserves its own thread then you can abuse each other to your hearts content with out disrupting a simple and valid question. As you have.
Shame on you both
Note that as i read other topics that interest me and that i feel are important to me, and your names come up i find myself not wanting to read what you have to say. One arguement has already tarnished your reputations as teachers. remember no one will want to learn from an arrogant fool, and you both seem pretty arrogant to me right now. Although im sure you are both wonderful people in reality but you are not proving this at this point in time.
Oh and one other thing. I feel that a simple strum pattern would be very helpfull for the beginner. Also it might help people to add chords in the correct place in respect to the lyrics as i find that very frustrating with songs that i dont know that well
well said but I know there is only one arrogant one.
As for the chords, you can change them by correcting the song. I dont see why the chords should be above each certain lyric for where it changes, But I can see how it is helpful, just not a Necessity. If someone is going to learn a song they would have no doubt heard the song and listened to the song to get to know it. And once you have the rythum of it in your headyou can take it from there.
I dont see why someone would not familiarise themselves with a song they want to learn.
ken
I agree with malgwera, time to grow up and move on!!! Standard and tab both have there place in music. It's up to the individual to choose which one is right for them to learn with. I don't know how to read standard, but would really like to know how. So, can we get back to music theory? I have alot to learn, and would like to proceed! Please!!! because unlike some, I'm not a professional, but would like to get better!!
getfiddle
I am closing this thread. Please discuss the topic - stop insulting each other.
Guitar chord forum - chordie → Music theory → Signature Rhythm (strum) Pattern (Standard Notation) for each song
