• From: Renfrewshire, Scotland
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 1,359

Topic: New acoustic guitar

Hey, I should hopefully be getting a new guitar in the next few months. Since the one I have is very old(20 years+) and second hand, I was wondering if anyone knew if it is necessary to get a new acoustic "set up" when you buy. I know it is essential to get an elecrtic set up but since most acoustics have a fixed bridge is this still needed or is it ok just to buy straight from the store and strum away?

I realise this may seem like a daft question but as I have said before, I always feel like such a prat in music stores.


Al

Is anything really made up of zeros and ones??

alvee33's Website

  • upyerkilt
  • upyerkilt
  • Unofficial king of Scotland
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  • From: Balloch, Scotland, UK, Earth
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 3,290

Re: New acoustic guitar

Hi Al,


I dont know if you can get the shop you are buying it from to set the bridge or not, if they do they will more than likely charge you for it as I think if bought from the shop it is sold as seen.

When I got my new one last year I shopped a few shops, I just tried a few different guitars and each one different. I finally got one from folk revolution on mary hill road at the far side nearer glasgow. tis a good wee shp for acoustical instruments. But also down nearer your end I like the wee shop in greenock.


Now, this thing about not liking trying guitars out in shops. I was like this too before, but not any more.

What to do is find one tune, the best tune you can do, not even all of the tune just about 4 or 5 different chords and ignore the guy staring at you.

A good way of getting over your phobia is to go into " the guitar store " on argyl street and have a laugh. tell him you are just learning so they will not think anything when you play duff notes and ask randomly for a guitar down that is high up, one that he needs the ladders. After you try about 4 or 5 or 6 different very expensive guitars, tell him thanks and walk out. Or if you are buying one, try all the expensive ones then buy a cheaper one ( thats what i dont when i got my 12 stringer)


aye so, ( are you in greenock? i forgot)

the bridge, if you really like a guitar and you think it is too high, just go ahead and buy it then send it off to get lowered or do it yourself


Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending
  • Registered: 2006-08-15
  • Posts: 80

Re: New acoustic guitar

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText"><b>upyerkilt wrote on Mon, 15 January 2007 17&#58;17</b></td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
After you try about 4 or 5 or 6 different very expensive guitars, tell him thanks and walk out.


Ken
</td></tr></table>



That's what I do. Every time i go in a music shop, I play at least four or five guitars and I'm rubbish. I do this without pretending I want to buy one. My attitude is, I go there to buy picks, or whatever accessory it is I want rather than getting them online because they have nice guitars for me to play with. That's what they're there for. Also, even though I'm perfectly upfront about the fact that I ain't buying, it makes you want to buy one, which over a period of time probably means you buy more guitars than you otherwise would, which is good for the shop in the end, innit?


I reckon I should charge them for tuning their guitars up ;o)

  • From: Pico Rivera, Calif. U.S.A.
  • Registered: 2006-10-26
  • Posts: 785

Re: New acoustic guitar

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText"><b>alvee33 wrote on Mon, 15 January 2007 16&#58;39</b></td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
Hey, I should hopefully be getting a new guitar in the next few months. Since the one I have is very old(20 years+) and second hand, I was wondering if anyone knew if it is necessary to get a new acoustic "set up" when you buy. I know it is essential to get an elecrtic set up but since most acoustics have a fixed bridge is this still needed or is it ok just to buy straight from the store and strum away?

I realise this may seem like a daft question but as I have said before, I always feel like such a prat in music stores.

Al
</td></tr></table>



To Alvee33 to put it in your own words, your question is not daft. You show good sense seeking advice on your next purchase. An acoustic like an electric guitar can have an action set up. The set up is similar with the exception of a fixed bridge as mentioned.


To set up an acoustic guitar your neck will be straight edged and adjusted to the gauge of strings you prefer. To lower the action the nut filed down and recutt and in some cases the bridge saddle will be filed down also.


I do not recommend doing an acoustic set up yourself as previously suggested send it to a qualified luthier or guitar tech. (acoustic guitars are not as forgiving as electrics when you break a part and need to replace it).


As for the comment of your 20 year old second hand guitar depending on the manufacture and the type of wood that it was constructed of it is now just seasoned. (the wood has aged and the tonal qualities are at there best).


To answer your original question is it essential to get an action set up on a new acoustic guitar. Usually not they are presetup at the factory. It is going to depend on you and if youwant the guitar tailored to suit your playing style.


Good luck.

Bootleger

Bootlegger guitars. <img src="images/smiley_icons/icon_cool.gif" border=0 alt="Cool">

  • From: Renfrewshire, Scotland
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 1,359

Re: New acoustic guitar

Thanks guys.

To be honest I still like my present guitar. It's a Fender Gemini II. There is, however a crack in the bridge and the saddle tends to have a lot of movement when loose. This means that I need to be very carefull when restringing or the intonation is knocked out. The action could be better too, but I still love the old thing.

But I am fast aproaching my 40th birthday and my darling wife has said that she will buy me a new guitar. I am not going to turn her down.


Ken, I am nearer Paisley and the mear mention of Gr**n*ck is very upsetting.

I've been in to Guitar Guitar a couple of times, would you recommend or advise to steer clear?


Thanks again guys.

Cheers

Is anything really made up of zeros and ones??

alvee33's Website

  • tkg3
  • Junior Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2006-03-18
  • Posts: 9

Re: New acoustic guitar

Al,


I too am 40, and have a wife who indulges my hobby, so definitely get a new guitar. But before you do, take your Fender in to a luthier/repair shop.  They can fix your saddle and make a new bridge for a lot cheaper than a new guitar, and they can check the overall setup.  You'll be glad you did.  I just had my Kalamazoo Oriole set up and a new nut made and it is well over 60 years old.  Second hand guitars rule!


Tom

I swear---by my life and my love of it---that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.

Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
  • From: Nottingham, UK
  • Registered: 2006-08-08
  • Posts: 690

Re: New acoustic guitar

Electric guitars need a setup far more often than acoustics do, usually to correct intonation. When in a guitar shop I take an Intellisense contact tuner with me. I tune up the guitar nice and then play E on the 12th fret top and bottom. If it's out then the intonation needs adjusting, not a good sign in a new electric but shops don't pay enough attention to this. Acoustics rarely ever lose intonation since everything is fixed, however an old acoustic that's been played lots will have plenty a good luthier can correct, worn frets, wonky neck etc.

'The sound of the city seems to disappear'
  • upyerkilt
  • upyerkilt
  • Unofficial king of Scotland
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  • Registered: 2006-03-04
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Re: New acoustic guitar

Al,

If the shop in Gr***ock is called guitar guitar then I would recommend it, I got two guitars out there and still got them and play them, ye get goos advice of the guys too, especially the older guy, he knows his stuff. I also think they do repairs??????

If that is all that is wrong with your fender, take it down and ask about getting it repaired and a quote on how much to repair.

However, guitar store on argyll street I would say is just a "gee us yer money" sort of shop, but ye can get a bargain in it.


Let us know how ye get on and happy birthday when it comes.

all the best


Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending
  • From: Renfrewshire, Scotland
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 1,359

Re: New acoustic guitar

Guitar guitar is the shop right at the top of Argyll St. Near enough at the Trongate. Some serious guitars in there.  <a href="http&#58;&#47;&#47;www.guitarguitar.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/</a>

Ok, so I have about £250($400?) to spend what are the recommendations? Any manufacturers to avoid? I realise this is all going to be personal opinion here but hey, I value what you guys have to say.

Is anything really made up of zeros and ones??

alvee33's Website

  • Registered: 2006-08-15
  • Posts: 80

Re: New acoustic guitar

I was in The Music Room at Cleckheaton last week and i was struck by what a good sound you can get for about that amount of money out of the solid body mahogany and spruce "Cort" guitars they sell there. Try one of those before you buy anything else.

  • From: Pico Rivera, Calif. U.S.A.
  • Registered: 2006-10-26
  • Posts: 785

Re: New acoustic guitar

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText"><b>alvee33 wrote on Tue, 16 January 2007 13&#58;57</b></td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
Thanks guys.

To be honest I still like my present guitar. It's a Fender Gemini II. There is, however a crack in the bridge and the saddle tends to have a lot of movement when loose. This means that I need to be very carefull when restringing or the intonation is knocked out. The action could be better too, but I still love the old thing.


Thanks again guys.

Cheers
</td></tr></table>


To Alvee33,

The crack in the saddle can be glued with good glue in a syringe or super glue.  If you use super glue when it drys it can be scraped off with a razor blade and will hold. You can shim the saddle with nylon or plastic shim stock on both sides of the bridge to pick up the slop (excess movement). This repair is a quick fix and depends upon your level of repair skills. A new bridge and saddle will cost around $30.00 American. Check the Steward McDonald website @(www.stewmac.com). You would have to steam your bridge to loosen up the glue and then scrape / pry it off with a flat knife made for acoustic bridge replacement. It is a job better done by an experienced luthier. A bridge replacement here in Cal.USA would run around $80.00 to $120.00. Hope this helps, take it in and get an estimate on repair versus replacement. The estimate should be free and you can play some guitars while your there.


Happy birthday or soon to be happy birthday.

<img src="images/smiley_icons/icon_biggrin.gif" border=0 alt="Very Happy">

Bootleger

Bootleger guitars. <img src="images/smiley_icons/icon_cool.gif" border=0 alt="Cool">

  • From: Lisburn
  • Registered: 2006-11-29
  • Posts: 10

Re: New acoustic guitar

If its any use to you, I recently purchased a Tanglewood TW28 CE-Q electro acoustic and it sounds absolutely fantastic with or without amp, bueatiful finish as well.
Got mine for about £200 but if you shop around you will get it cheaper.

  • From: North Wales
  • Registered: 2007-01-04
  • Posts: 68

Re: New acoustic guitar

ive recently got a crafter guitar its absolutely mint with a sunburst finish paid around £400 for it, its a lovely sounding guitar very solid and stays in tune very well any1 else tried one before..

  • Registered: 2007-01-20
  • Posts: 1

Re: New acoustic guitar

Yes and i think you could have them do this for free, depending on how much you are spending.I have played $200 guitars that i think sounded better than $2000 guitars and often wondered why it appears to me that if the strings vibrate so much that you can actually watch them the guitar sounds great and if the set up achieves this i wish they would do this all the time instead of here,s the box,happy playing.

  • Registered: 2006-08-15
  • Posts: 80

Re: New acoustic guitar

When I bought my Yamaha it was because it was the best sounding guitar I had tried despite being about 80% cheaper than some of the others.

  • Registered: 2007-01-25
  • Posts: 4

Re: New acoustic guitar

always have someone do a setup its your guitar

  • From: Renfrewshire, Scotland
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 1,359

Re: New acoustic guitar

Yeah, but is it necessary on an acoustic with a fixed bridge. I'm not going to buy a guitar if the action needs to be lowered or anything. Surely that's the point of trying them out. If the action is bad then it goes back on the wall. And at

Is anything really made up of zeros and ones??

alvee33's Website

  • From: Pico Rivera, Calif. U.S.A.
  • Registered: 2006-10-26
  • Posts: 785

Re: New acoustic guitar

Fix the one you have, get it set up to your style of playing. With the money you save use it as a base savings to but that "DREAM" guitar you want(ed). I also gave you incorrect information regarding removal of your bridge. They are not steamed off the are heated first then pryed loose. (they sell electric bridge blankets for about $159.00 american.


Good luck.

Bootleger, <img src="images/smiley_icons/icon_biggrin.gif" border=0 alt="Very Happy">

Bootleger guitars.

  • From: Renfrewshire, Scotland
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 1,359

Re: New acoustic guitar

Cheers Bootlegger, you have been a treasure chest of information on this. Really glad guys like yourself pop in from time to time.


Still got that little itch for a new one though.... <img src="images/smiley_icons/icon_lol.gif" border=0 alt="Laughing">

Is anything really made up of zeros and ones??

alvee33's Website

  • From: Pico Rivera, Calif. U.S.A.
  • Registered: 2006-10-26
  • Posts: 785

Re: New acoustic guitar

New guitars are always great that's why I started building them. I started for myself as a hobby and got into repair work to support my habit. The key is to remember that the one you have can still be repaired. Also how many guitars are too much? (Don't let your wife see this she'll hate me for it).<img src="images/smiley_icons/icon_biggrin.gif" border=0 alt="Very Happy">


Bootleger.

Bootleger guitars.

  • Registered: 2007-01-03
  • Posts: 36

Re: New acoustic guitar

I have bought and sold quite a number of guitars over the years and I like the comments some have made here about shopping around both new and used. As for setting it up that depends on the action and intonation. Never buy a guitar just because you love the looks of the thing. If the action is good and it is properly tuned but still doesn't sound right I'd stay away unless you want to take your new guitar in to the shop for repair before ever getting any enjoyment out of it. If it has cracks in the area of the bridge, yeah, it can be repaired but its usaully a sign of an amature playing around with the steel rod that runs up the neck and over torsioning it - stay away from that too. Personally I like a new guitar to be set up properly before it ever gets to the shelf. It shows the manufacturer and dealer pay attention to the details and are probably reputable. Any dealer putting guitars out for sale that are not set up either didn't take the time to do it or don't know how. In my opinion neither of those are good. A good dealer knows his/her stuff and the guitar will be ready to play once you get it home and fine tune the tuning. Combine that with nice sound and good looks and you have a winning combination.

  • Registered: 2006-07-09
  • Posts: 47

Re: New acoustic guitar

hey hey!

as you said, just personal opinion, but have you considered more than one acoustic? it's handy (for me at least) to keep one tuned standard, one to open D and one to open E, for slide. and owning multiple acoustics can be done without going to the poor house. last summer i found a montana acoustic in a north missouri pawn shop for 25$ (unstrung). good straight neck, nice action. for me, finding the bargains is almost half the fun. i used it for my youtube video "Uncle Lemuel's Blues" in open D.

happy birthday, and good luck!


peace, slim.

  • From: Pico Rivera, Calif. U.S.A.
  • Registered: 2006-10-26
  • Posts: 785

Re: New acoustic guitar

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText"><b>TakamineEG341C wrote on Sat, 27 January 2007 06&#58;08</b></td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
I like the comments some have made here about shopping around both new and used. As for setting it up that depends on the action and intonation. If the action is good and it is properly tuned but still doesn't sound right I'd stay away unless you want to take your new guitar in to the shop for repair before ever getting any enjoyment out of it. If it has cracks in the area of the bridge, yeah, it can be repaired but its usaully a sign of an amature playing around with the steel rod that runs up the neck and over torsioning it - stay away from that too.  Any dealer putting guitars out for sale that are not set up either didn't take the time to do it or don't know how.  A good dealer knows his/her stuff and the guitar will be ready to play once you get it home and fine tune the tuning. Combine that with nice sound and good looks and you have a winning combination.
</td></tr></table>


{condensed & editited for addressing by Bootleger}.


TakamineEG341C:

The purpose for setting up a guitar usually is because of the string height or intonation problems. If a guitar (in this case acoustics) are set up and the intonation is correct and it still sounds lousey then it is the wood used not the set up. 


All the repairs in the world would not make it sound good. Cracks in the bridge can be caused by dryness or heat lack of moisture drys wood thats why you oil your finger board and bridge. Thats why you put lotion on your hands so they won't crack when there dry. Turning the truss rod will either straigten or bow your neck over.


As far as setting up every guitar in a music store I agree it should be done, but there are Walmart type music stores with to much product to do every guitar. Alot of stores have a guitar tech come in once a week some do not have one on staff.


There is more to caring for a guitar then changing strings and cleaning it once in a while.


Bootleger.

Bootleger guitars.

  • From: Pico Rivera, Calif. U.S.A.
  • Registered: 2006-10-26
  • Posts: 785

Re: New acoustic guitar

<table border="0" align="center" width="90%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td class="SmallText"><b>anotheremptyhead wrote on Sat, 27 January 2007 08&#58;02</b></td></tr><tr><td class="quote">
hey hey!

as you said, just personal opinion, but have you considered more than one acoustic? it's handy (for me at least) to keep one tuned standard, one to open D and one to open E, for slide. and owning multiple acoustics can be done without going to the poor house. last summer i found a montana acoustic in a north missouri pawn shop for 25$ (unstrung). good straight neck, nice action. for me, finding the bargains is almost half the fun. i used it for my youtube video "Uncle Lemuel's Blues" in open D.

happy birthday, and good luck!


peace, slim.
</td></tr></table>


Slim you found a champagne on a beer budget. <img src="images/smiley_icons/icon_biggrin.gif" border=0 alt="Very Happy">  I think that's great. You find alot of gems in pawn shops. Once again good for you.


Bootleger.

Bootleger guitars.

  • Registered: 2007-01-03
  • Posts: 36

Re: New acoustic guitar

Good points. I do not profess to be an expert, however I have bought and sold many guitars over the years. I have had good ones and bad ones - some that seemed like bargains until you found out the depth of the problems. Through it all I have learned a lot of valuable lessons and based on that my advice to the average guy or gal looking for a new guitar is to stay away from anything requiring much more than tuning if what you want is just to play. As for buying from a dealer I find that it is a competative industry and if the shop you're in isn't willing to put a ready to play product in your hands simply be aware that there are many very good, reputable and sincere dealers who value your business and their reputation enoug that they will. I have had a few "project" bargains as well and enjoyed working on them for the sake of it and enjoyed playing them afterwards, but that is an entirely different thing from looking to buy a new guitar from a store or dealer. My advice - get the most for your money that is available. To me that includes a properly set up guitar.