Topic: Making demo CDs and copyrights... anyone know facts?

For the last year or so a friend and I have been playing gigs around the Phoenix area.  We mostly do Irish music and a lot of the songs are certainly public domain (although I don't know this for a fact, but seems to make sense since many are 100+ years old).  Of course, we still do come covers of more modern Irish music (Pogues, Christy Moore, Sinead O'Connor, etc).

Anyhow, we got these gigs based on people seeing us at open mics or at other gigs so we never needed a demo CD.  However, we want to branch out a bit and see if we can't land a few more gigs so now we are thinking about getting some recording done.

What we are trying to decide on is which songs to include on the demo CD.  We want to give the listener a taste of what we sound like so we want to include a traditional song, a modern song, and a song that falls somewhere between.  However, the last two songs are more than likely copyrighted.

What do I need to do here, if anything, as far as these copyrights go?  Certainly we won't be selling these CDs... we are only going to make 100 or so.  However, its certainly arguable that we will profit by recording these songs since they will lead the way to paying gigs.  Anyone know of any laws or norms here that I can research?  I'd rather not break the law, but I also want to put songs on the CD that will sell us.

Re: Making demo CDs and copyrights... anyone know facts?

as long as your recording them and dont intend to market them in great number i dont think you will run into any trouble if you record them and sell copies at your gigs thats a different matter you would have to obtain permission from the copyright owner and that may cost money for the library of congress copyright office to do a search i dont see the harm in recording them for the reasons you stated but thats my opinion mabey someone else can offer more info

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Re: Making demo CDs and copyrights... anyone know facts?

I dont know if tis will help - but - many years ago while working in the Television Industry my cameraman wanted to make a documentry . He wrote to phil collins ( the famous one ) for permission to use one of his songs in it . phil collins wrote back and gave permission . it was a documentry about the Homeless over here . So - write a few letters explaining exactly what you intend to do - you never know - you might get a result . WHO DARES WINS .

any resemblance to my songs sounding anything like the original is highly unlikely.

Re: Making demo CDs and copyrights... anyone know facts?

I agree with Russell here but I think if you are recording and making any money out of it, no matter how little a record company has the right to sue.
If the song is over 50 years old I dont think the record company can do anything. Best check on that first though if you plan to make money from selling cd's.

If it is just for a demo to hand out to get noticed then I cannot see how anyone can sue unless they get really pernickity and say your demos are making you get gigs and from the gigs you earn money because you handed out someone elses songs. hmmmmm,
If it was me, I would go for it and make them but then I like to differ from silly laws.
And with silly laws differing in different countries yet the whole world can hear the same thing it makes the silly laws even sillier.

Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending

Re: Making demo CDs and copyrights... anyone know facts?

If you do not have the rights explicitly granted to you, don't record it.  The only music you own is the music you wrote.

Someday we'll win this thing...

[url=http://www.aclosesecond.com]www.aclosesecond.com[/url]

Re: Making demo CDs and copyrights... anyone know facts?

i think there are a lot of songs in public domain that require no permission,unless you earn a great deal of money from recording the songs you want it is highly unlikely you will be sued add to it the songs will not be played through any media for all purposeses you are invisable record what you want just dont distribute them or reproduce them en mass

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Re: Making demo CDs and copyrights... anyone know facts?

jerome.oneil wrote:

If you do not have the rights explicitly granted to you, don't record it.  The only music you own is the music you wrote.

sorry jerome,
I am disagreeing.
I just got a new 4 track and I will be recording myself doing other artists work as well as my own.
I will not be making money out of it so I will never be sued, and even if they did want to sue me, the only money they could sue me for is the money I have made ilegally from another persons work, So that means they will pay all those court fees to sue me for £0.00 since that is how much I will make by recording their songs.

I think an artist would be delighted that someone likes the music so much that they want to try it themselves, but when one person makes money on what another wrote....then he has the right to be annoyed and take it to court.

So, my first song today will be John Prine's "Other side of town" with guitar, vocals, mandolin and I might try a note or two from the violin. Although it is a 4 track I can get 32 tracks down on it, but 4 is plenty for my needs.

Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending

Re: Making demo CDs and copyrights... anyone know facts?

danagle read uperkilts last post it conferms what i believe to be true so record away and dont worry about it

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Re: Making demo CDs and copyrights... anyone know facts?

I totally agree with Ken. If you think about this logically making 100 CDs and giving them out is presenting the work to very few people. There are many people like me that have cover versions on YouTube which, theoretically is available to millions. If anyone is going to hounded it will be the users of YouTube (and similar) and these sites would be closed down.

Also with YouTube many of the known artists videos on there are direct copies from their CD or TV put up by fans, now that, I am sure, is a violation of copyright, and what gets done about it - NOTHING.

I am quite happy to leave my cover versions on YouTube and hand out my CDs, I think you have nothing to worry about.

Roger

"Do, or do not; there is no try"

Re: Making demo CDs and copyrights... anyone know facts?

upyerkilt wrote:

Although it is a 4 track I can get 32 tracks down on it, but 4 is plenty for my needs.

Ken

How?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
danspr

Blues is easy to play, but hard to feel
Jimi Hendrix
cool danspr

Re: Making demo CDs and copyrights... anyone know facts?

Roger Guppy wrote:

I totally agree with Ken. If you think about this logically making 100 CDs and giving them out is presenting the work to very few people. There are many people like me that have cover versions on YouTube which, theoretically is available to millions. If anyone is going to hounded it will be the users of YouTube (and similar) and these sites would be closed down.

Also with YouTube many of the known artists videos on there are direct copies from their CD or TV put up by fans, now that, I am sure, is a violation of copyright, and what gets done about it - NOTHING.

I am quite happy to leave my cover versions on YouTube and hand out my CDs, I think you have nothing to worry about.

Roger

I actually got a rather sniffy email from Youtube telling me that my cover of Brown Eyed Girl was in contravention of copyright laws and they removed it. I can only assume that Van the Man's lawyers are a bit sharper than some of the other artists I've covered. Maybe they have more time on their hands these days since he mellowed a bit. Either way, I thought it was a wee bit harsh....but fair enough. Video was removed and I lived to tell the tale. I'll keep putting music on there and remove it by exception rather than as the rule.

All I got, is a red guitar, three chords and the truth

Re: Making demo CDs and copyrights... anyone know facts?

bud_wiser wrote:

I actually got a rather sniffy email from Youtube telling me that my cover of Brown Eyed Girl was in contravention of copyright laws and they removed it. I can only assume that Van the Man's lawyers are a bit sharper than some of the other artists I've covered. Maybe they have more time on their hands these days since he mellowed a bit. Either way, I thought it was a wee bit harsh....but fair enough. Video was removed and I lived to tell the tale. I'll keep putting music on there and remove it by exception rather than as the rule.

Hey Mark I can only think that perhaps your version was better than the original and they got frightened.

Roger

"Do, or do not; there is no try"

Re: Making demo CDs and copyrights... anyone know facts?

danspr wrote:
upyerkilt wrote:

Although it is a 4 track I can get 32 tracks down on it, but 4 is plenty for my needs.

Ken

How?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
danspr

Something to do with bouncing tracks onto others. I have not recoded more than 4 tracks on it, but my mate has done this on his old amtrad 4 track. Once you have recorded tracks you send them all to one track, or something like that.

Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending

Re: Making demo CDs and copyrights... anyone know facts?

one thing about bouncing tracks unless you have a digital recorder you will lose tone quality assuming you trying to bounce them on a tape recorder rather then a digital recorder,each generation of bounce (number of times you bounce) extracts playback quality and the end product most of the time is disapointing

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Re: Making demo CDs and copyrights... anyone know facts?

yep russell very true. as i said , my mates amstrad 4 track.. it was a tape and it got really bad after 4 tracks, but the digital is suppose to be better, I just dont think I need it.

I also lose quality on my 16 track guitar pro 3 after 4 tracks and that is on my pc, but i tihnk that has more to do with my crap sound card than the actual program

ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending

16 (edited by Russell_Harding 2008-02-23 23:58:44)

Re: Making demo CDs and copyrights... anyone know facts?

ken you cant go wrong with digital no matter how many times you shift tracks the quality stays true i just finished a project it was more an experiment since i never attemted this before,ark sent me one of his songs i had to figure out how to burn it to disk,feed the info into my digital BR-8 and record additional tracks while keeping the integrety and pan all tracks so they each had a location on the playback and burn it to my tascam cd-rw 700 the finished mix had to be ripped to the media library and from there it was now located in my files the rest was gravy clickl on the file and email it back to ark it took the whole morning i started at 7am and finished at noon but the end product was as good as anything ive recorded well worth the time and effort but i wont know till ark emails me, i may have to modifie it but i know the sequence and it wont be any trouble

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Re: Making demo CDs and copyrights... anyone know facts?

I recieved comformation it worked! I feel like I just stepped foot on another planet"one small step for man a giant leap for musicians" (pardon me mr.Armstrong i couldn't help myself) this opens up some interesting possibilitys

Russell_Harding wrote:

ken you cant go wrong with digital no matter how many times you shift tracks the quality stays true i just finished a project it was more an experiment since i never attemted this before,ark sent me one of his songs i had to figure out how to burn it to disk,feed the info into my digital BR-8 and record additional tracks while keeping the integrety and pan all tracks so they each had a location on the playback and burn it to my tascam cd-rw 700 the finished mix had to be ripped to the media library and from there it was now located in my files the rest was gravy clickl on the file and email it back to ark it took the whole morning i started at 7am and finished at noon but the end product was as good as anything ive recorded well worth the time and effort but i wont know till ark emails me, i may have to modifie it but i know the sequence and it wont be any trouble

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Re: Making demo CDs and copyrights... anyone know facts?

sounds likie a good prject russell, good luck wit hit.
are you posting it on the nett when it is finished

ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending

Re: Making demo CDs and copyrights... anyone know facts?

ark mentioned something about that in his email I have no objections this raises the level of interacting with others all over this planet to another plane

upyerkilt wrote:

sounds likie a good prject russell, good luck wit hit.
are you posting it on the nett when it is finished

ken

"Growing old is not for sissies"