Re: Thanksgiving!

On the religion angle, I go along with y'all to the extent that we recognize religion as a set of rules contained within an organization and that faith is different from religion.   I also further differentiate, even on what may be obvious.  I do not think for a moment that the Crusades were fought to advance the Lord's will.  Not for a moment.  They had nothing to do with faith or pleasing God, but over someone who had replaced God with the gods of power and wealth.   

Also, I have always thought of politics as the means by which limited resources are allocated.  It's economics with guns instead of calculators. 

If you take my definition of religion above, and use it as a sauce to pour over the entree of my definition of politics and I think you'd see that 'religious' wars are just plain old armed political conflict.  Natural resources, technology, economic influence, land, all of these are the limited resources the political process of war are trying to allocate (or reallocate to be more accurate). 

Now to conflate the threads of this thread, on Thanksgiving, let's give thanks for our soldiers who are doing the fighting in the Middle East.  Regardless of the purposes of the war, and regardless of what I or others may think of those reasons, I am grateful to those young men and women risking their necks for my benefit.  I can sit here and think high minded thoughts, but must always remember that there's kids who won't be home this year and far, far, far too many who will never be home again.  Back to what I said to Doc, I do wish that the leaders had to put their own skin in the game rather than risking someone else's.  That goes for all sides of the current conflict.

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

27 (edited by last_rebel 2007-11-19 22:53:04)

Re: Thanksgiving!

Zurf, I think you're right about the difference between religion and faith.
    I think ultimately War is waged and ordered by leaders seeking economic gain, who would USE religion as a way to convince the common man to fight for him.
  I do believe there are noble causes for war, for instance fighting in defense when someone else invades you. I also believe, while I have nothing against the PEOPLE of England even in that time, that the Revolutionary War was a justifiable war, and that the result was freedom. America may have a lot of problems, and there might even be political leaders at the top, even in America's earliest days, who had bad intentions for our country's directions. But regardless of what a few so called 'important' people may or may not believe or do, our constituiton DOES provide for power 'by the consent of the governed', and ultimately that the will of the American people is what coutns. Maybe the american leader of the early revolutionary war were in it for the wrong reasons, maybe they were only in it for money, maybe the whole freedom thing was something they said to get Americans to band together and fight, but it didn't matter who said it or even why,  the american people believed in it. They fought and died for freedom, because to them thats what America was about. Thats what to the common everyday person America is still about: freedom.

All You Need is Love smile

Re: Thanksgiving!

arkady wrote:

Surely wars are fought for 3 main reasons
1 Politics
2 Religion
3 Territorial gain linked to the control of resources and expansion.
Of course all three can be interlinked and used to control the populace who have to fight and die for the so called cause.
Ark

All three of those are about politics.   

Religion is merely another means of controlling people.  That's politics.

Terrirtory, or just plain old resources, is also politically driven.  i.e. I want to control your resources.

War is just politics by other means.

Someday we'll win this thing...

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