Topic: Luthier advice

I know we have at least a couple of luthiers on the forums here, and I was wondering if any of you have advice for someone considering taking up the trade?

Any roadblokcs to look out for, schools to look into or avoid?  How much space do you need?  About how much to expect to spend on tools?

Is it a viable business for you, how do you go about promoting yourself?  Do you have a certificate of some kind, or did you just start tinkering?

"There's such a fine line between genius and stupidity."
                              --David St. Hubbins

Re: Luthier advice

I've read a few books on the subject, and they all say to make a few guitars before setting yourself up as a luthier.

Check out this website:

http://www.mimf.com/

3 (edited by boxer 2007-11-16 20:54:32)

Re: Luthier advice

Hello I have a very good friend who is a luthier....
boatgypsy@lycos.co.uk
I know that he would be more than happy to answer any of your questions. x
He is a complete star.

And if he can't help you, he'll know some one who can, also check out myspace, have met lots of amazing Luthiers there !

aka ......   Boxer Petal....<3

Re: Luthier advice

Thanks for the links and input.

"There's such a fine line between genius and stupidity."
                              --David St. Hubbins

Re: Luthier advice

If you haven't already got it, try the book "Make your own electric guitar" by Melvyn Hiscock, ISBN number 0-9531049-0-7.

6 (edited by bootleger 2007-11-17 21:45:18)

Re: Luthier advice

dguyton wrote:

I know we have at least a couple of luthiers on the forums here, and I was wondering if any of you have advice for someone considering taking up the trade?

Any roadblokcs to look out for, schools to look into or avoid?  How much space do you need?  About how much to expect to spend on tools?

Is it a viable business for you, how do you go about promoting yourself?  Do you have a certificate of some kind, or did you just start tinkering?

Tibernuis is correct Melvin Hiscocks book is considered the bible of electric guitar making. As far as schools go it all depends where your at, how much money you have to spend on tuition (Roberto Venn School of Luthiery in Arizona USA) cost aproximatley $8000.00 for a six week course not counting your tools or materials. You can buy precut & routed bodies and necks and assemble some very nice and quality built guitars. As far as setting up a shop it all depends on the budget again, do you want to attempt making a living making guitars or as a hobby builder as me? You can have minimal power tools and hand tools and still build from scratch. Keep in mind that to build a guitar from scratch you will have to buy raw material which can cost up towards $800.00 ( american) average not counting your labor.  Get together a list of questions and send me an email I will see if I can help you.

Bootlegger.
Bootlegger guitars.

Re: Luthier advice

dguyton, which country are you in? I know a few shops that sell guitar parts online, thanks to the book I mentioned earlier.

Re: Luthier advice

Ok, perhaps I need to give a little background:

I live in the central US.  I am in my mid-forties, and looking hard at changing careers in 3 years, plus or minus.  I am currently looking into the possibility of opening a small music shop, certainly to include guitar repair/maintenance, possibly to include build-to-order jobs. 

I think I might be able to do this for a couple of reasons:  1) I have a good lead-time to do my research and acquire skills and needed material; 2) I have an uncle who has some luthier experience, who was a shop teacher for 30 years (he ought to be able to 'introduce' me to the trade); 3) after ditching my current job, I will have the time and cash needed to attend a reputable course.  Last but not least-- I love guitars.

Part of my current problem is that I really don't know enough yet to know what questions to ask!  I do own 3 guitars that I would feel comfortable experimenting on, and I can do a setup on a solid-body electric.  I'm getting ready to change out the pickups and mounts (maybe the switch, pots and wiring as well) in a hollowbody electric I own (I was an electronics technician in a past life, that stuff doesn't scare me).

If you guys just keep pointing me to decent books and websites, I can figure out enough to know what questions to ask!  Keep it coming!

"There's such a fine line between genius and stupidity."
                              --David St. Hubbins

9 (edited by Tibernius 2007-11-19 18:26:24)

Re: Luthier advice

Try these then:

www.warmoth.com

http://www.stewmac.com/

http://www.guitarpartsresource.com/guitar_index.htm

http://www.lmii.com/Default.asp

http://www.guitarplansunlimited.com/

All in the US. Warmoth sell parts and complete custom guitars. LMII sell pretty much everything for making guitars, so do StewMac. The last sells plans (isn't that strange...), not sure if you could use them for a business though.

Couple of things from the book I mentioned earlier (if you haven't bought it by now, go and get a copy): "The only way to make a small fortune making guitars is to start with a big one.". Make sure you know all of the woodworking techniques, it's no good trying to build a guitar without them.

And make sure you start early, make a few guitars (maybe using the plans i mentioned) and start basic.

Re: Luthier advice

Thanks, Tibernius.  I have no illusions about making any size of fortune; as a matter of fact, I rather expect a large portion of the business to come from band instrument sales and rentals, rather than building custom guitars smile

Now I just have to clear some space for a workbench...

"There's such a fine line between genius and stupidity."
                              --David St. Hubbins

Re: Luthier advice

No problem, glad to be of some help. Let us know when you've made your next guitar.

Re: Luthier advice

Hey, since you know about the electronics, maybe you can fix a problem i'm having with one of my guitars. As soon as i plug the guitar in, there's a horrible buzzing noise from the amp. It only happens with one guitar, and it stops when the lead (cord) is touched. (metal ends on the cord)

Any ideas?

13 (edited by bootleger 2007-11-20 02:34:25)

Re: Luthier advice

Tibernius wrote:

Hey, since you know about the electronics, maybe you can fix a problem i'm having with one of my guitars. As soon as i plug the guitar in, there's a horrible buzzing noise from the amp. It only happens with one guitar, and it stops when the lead (cord) is touched. (metal ends on the cord)

Any ideas?

Loose ground (earth) wire either on your input jack or on the ground (earth) to your pot.

Bootlegger.

Re: Luthier advice

Tibernius wrote:

Try these then:

www.warmoth.com

http://www.stewmac.com/

http://www.guitarpartsresource.com/guitar_index.htm

http://www.lmii.com/Default.asp

http://www.guitarplansunlimited.com/

All in the US. Warmoth sell parts and complete custom guitars. LMII sell pretty much everything for making guitars, so do StewMac. The last sells plans (isn't that strange...), not sure if you could use them for a business though.

Couple of things from the book I mentioned earlier (if you haven't bought it by now, go and get a copy): "The only way to make a small fortune making guitars is to start with a big one.". Make sure you know all of the woodworking techniques, it's no good trying to build a guitar without them.

And make sure you start early, make a few guitars (maybe using the plans i mentioned) and start basic.

All the websites mention above by Tibernius do have supplies and books on building guitars which is a true statement. You have to determine how and what you want to build. Refer to my prior posting & send me an email I'm closer to home (left coast).

Bootleger.

Re: Luthier advice

bootleger wrote:
Tibernius wrote:

Hey, since you know about the electronics, maybe you can fix a problem i'm having with one of my guitars. As soon as i plug the guitar in, there's a horrible buzzing noise from the amp. It only happens with one guitar, and it stops when the lead (cord) is touched. (metal ends on the cord)

Any ideas?

Loose ground (earth) wire either on your input jack or on the ground (earth) to your pot.

Bootlegger.

Thanks, I'll have a look at that later.

Re: Luthier advice

bootleger wrote:
Tibernius wrote:

Hey, since you know about the electronics, maybe you can fix a problem i'm having with one of my guitars. As soon as i plug the guitar in, there's a horrible buzzing noise from the amp. It only happens with one guitar, and it stops when the lead (cord) is touched. (metal ends on the cord)

Any ideas?

Loose ground (earth) wire either on your input jack or on the ground (earth) to your pot.

Bootlegger.

I could have sworn I responded to that post, with almost exactly the same information.  smile

"There's such a fine line between genius and stupidity."
                              --David St. Hubbins

Re: Luthier advice

dguyton wrote:
bootleger wrote:
Tibernius wrote:

Hey, since you know about the electronics, maybe you can fix a problem i'm having with one of my guitars. As soon as i plug the guitar in, there's a horrible buzzing noise from the amp. It only happens with one guitar, and it stops when the lead (cord) is touched. (metal ends on the cord)

Any ideas?

Loose ground (earth) wire either on your input jack or on the ground (earth) to your pot.

Bootlegger.

I could have sworn I responded to that post, with almost exactly the same information.  smile

I'm sure this is the second time I answered also.

Bootlegger.

18 (edited by Tibernius 2007-11-22 20:50:50)

Re: Luthier advice

Well, it wasn't a loose wire after all.
I fixed it yesterday, the problem was the inside and back of the jack was covered in rust! No loose wires anywhere. Scraped the rust off and it works fine.

Re: Luthier advice

Tibernius wrote:

Well, you were both wrong.
I fixed it yesterday, the problem was the inside and back of the jack was covered in rust! No loose wires anywhere. Scraped the rust off and it works fine.

But the rust did not allow the jack to be grounded so the common cause of buzzing is a loose wire. In your case the rust did not allow the ground to make contact in essence working the same as a loose wire. Still not grounded correctly. Your problem was still diganosed by two persons correctly, which in itself tells you something since we did not have the guitar in front of us. We worked of the post that you wrote and you did not get a bill.

Bootlegger.

20 (edited by Tibernius 2007-11-22 20:51:37)

Re: Luthier advice

bootleger wrote:
Tibernius wrote:

Well, you were both wrong.
I fixed it yesterday, the problem was the inside and back of the jack was covered in rust! No loose wires anywhere. Scraped the rust off and it works fine.

But the rust did not allow the jack to be grounded so the common cause of buzzing is a loose wire. In your case the rust did not allow the ground to make contact in essence working the same as a loose wire. Still not grounded correctly. Your problem was still diganosed by two persons correctly, which in itself tells you something since we did not have the guitar in front of us. We worked of the post that you wrote and you did not get a bill.

Bootlegger.

I wasn't complaining, I just wanted to make sure that people know that this can cause problems. Rust isn't mentioned in any of the fixes in my guitar books. I apologise, I should have worded it better.

Thanks for the advice as well.

Since this is still about guitar-making, how much does it cost to make a guitar? I know that's a "how long is a piece of string" question, but can someone give me a rough estimate?

Re: Luthier advice

Tibernius wrote:

Since this is still about guitar-making, how much does it cost to make a guitar? I know that's a "how long is a piece of string" question, but can someone give me a rough estimate?

I'm seeing solid-body kits from (I think) a couple of different makers that are in the $220-$280 range, depending on what wood is used for the body and fretboard.  That's with frets pre-set, and all the electronics included.

Me, I think I'd want just the wood, and add my own choices for hardware and tuners.  In that case the price would go up, probably pretty substantially.

Even if I decide to just do this sort of thing as a hobby, I need to get set up with a tax ID number just so I can get the goodies wholesale...  smile

"There's such a fine line between genius and stupidity."
                              --David St. Hubbins

Re: Luthier advice

which sites are posting music sheets similiar to chordie but for finger work (picking) on artists like peter white?

23 (edited by cytania 2007-11-28 17:06:03)

Re: Luthier advice

I get the impression that shops do alot of restringing and repair work (particularly electrics) more so than making guitars to comission. Certainly make sure you have made several guitars of all the main types before calling yourself a luthier. Tuition also appears to be a big moneyspinner these days if my local store is typical.

Guitar stores have alot of bases to cover, first there need to be cheap Squire type instruments for parents/kids, then you need some to die for Fender/Gibsons (preferably some kind of rare limited edition) for the middle-aged male who is more collector than player. Then you need something mid-priced that plays nice even though the name isn't well known for people like me.

You also need to get the atmosphere right so that nervous customers aren't intimidated by metal players at the back but genuine players feel your store has got something for them. It's a tall order but hundreds of local shops do real well at it.

'The sound of the city seems to disappear'

Re: Luthier advice

I think you're exactly right, cytania.  It would seem to me that building a few will give major insight into repairs and maintenance; I'm building the tuition and materials (and books and tools) cost into the business plan, so all that will count as assets if and when the shop becomes a reality.

From my discussions with my local shop guy, some of the requirements for carrying the big brands are pretty steep: $100,000 minimum buy-in for Gibson, I think he said $30,000 for Fender.  Those couple of "to die for" axes on the back wall will probably be from my own collection (again, counted as business assets at start-up).

Thanks for the input, and keep the ideas coming!

"There's such a fine line between genius and stupidity."
                              --David St. Hubbins

Re: Luthier advice

dguyton wrote:

Thanks for the input, and keep the ideas coming!

If you can make a decent LP-ish guitar and coil-tap the humbuckers that should sell. Or a strat with 3 coil-tapped SD strat-sized humbuckers. Those are the kind of things I'll do when I can finally make my own guitars.

Don't forget PRS and Ibanez, possibly Fernandes for variants to Gibson/Fender high priced guitars for the back wall.