• From: BELGIUM
  • Registered: 2007-01-27
  • Posts: 3,403

Topic: MONEY DOES GROW ON TREES

People use to say that money is not growing on trees.
But finally I have an answer: it does grow on trees.
WHY? they use wood to make guitars, good guitars are expensive, a lot of $$$, and that's a reason. I know it sounds stupid, my point was asking a few things about "that wood".
- Who knows what wood is best, to make an acoustic guitar. Mahogany, Spruce and what is the difference between Brazilian Rosewood versus Indian Rosewood. You can see often, surfing on sites, like MARTIN, how important Brazilian Rosewood is. I know that the import is very low these days, so it is a lot easier to import and use Indian Rosewood. DOES THE HUMAN EAR HEAR A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE TWO?
Also cheaper models use a “laminate† top = multiple layers of wood that are glued together.
More expensive guitars, use solid wood, often spruce.

It is maybe impossible to answer the question: what kind of wood, used to build a guitar body, gives the best results? I have looked on many sites, but never found a decent answer.
Thanks
I would really appreciate, not only for me, but for others too, to have an answer.

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

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  • Zurf
  • Zurf
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Re: MONEY DOES GROW ON TREES

If you need an answer, the answer is mahogony. 

I do not care to elaborate on why because it doesn't matter. 

The reason is that it's all entirely subjective.  The reason that there are menus in restaurants is that we don't all want the same things. 

What you can do is to establish certain criteria for certain types of guitars and then based on the criteria establish best woods for certain results.  But for a broad-based question like "which is best."  The answer could as easily be any wood.  Except maybe balsa. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude
  • From: BELGIUM
  • Registered: 2007-01-27
  • Posts: 3,403

Re: MONEY DOES GROW ON TREES

Thanks Zurf. I know and owe a lot about guitars.
And yet the always recurring question is the wood. About the food: didn't know that expression. Here is the same in Latin: DE GUSTIBUS ET COLORIBUS NON EST DISPUTANDUM.
About colour and taste, we don't dispute (We use this expression). Zurf do you have also the impression that there are too many different guitars, FOR SURE Fender.(This an electric, on the acoustic site. It was the first guitar popping up.
I wrote 3 topics:
- cheap and decent electric guitars
- cheap and decent acoustic guitars
- cheap and decent amps.
It is sometimes very difficult for me to talk about how many? what brand?, because I earned a lot of money, when I was practising as a Doc. . Reading a lot of topics, I know that I am blessed, being able to have 27 guitars, an investment and passion
I learned a lesson here of modesty, seeing so many people trying to buy a guitar, with a limited budget. If you want a guitar, you want it immediately (it happened to me too) and with the knowledge if you have patience, and are able to wait a couple of months, it allows you to buy a better guitar.
Sorry for all the facts I wrote here, I just want to give advise, having the whole day to search on the internet a lot of information. It takes sometimes 2-3 hours to find the best.

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

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  • Zurf
  • Zurf
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Re: MONEY DOES GROW ON TREES

For a moderately priced acoustic, I think it's hard to beat a mahogany back and spruce top.  The spruce is vibrant and loud, and the mahogany has a mellowing tightness to it.  The sides at that price point probably don't make much difference.

The biggest step up of course is from a composite body and top to a composite body with a solid top (usually spruce).  That's a huge difference.  It happens around the $200 price point here (U.S.). 

The next step up is to a solid back.  I like mahogany, but spruce, koa, and other woods work too.  That's getting into the $500 price point.  Electronics and better woods are generally trade-offs in that price category. 

I don't know much about guitars better than that, as I don't expect that I'll ever go much beyond the $500 price area for a guitar.  Gretsch had a solid body with koa and mahogany that sounded real nice, but was pretty heavy.  There are any number of guitars with mahogany back and sides with a spruce top in that price range.  I think that's an excellent combination of woods. 

As far as wood for necks and fingerboards, I'm out of my league.  I couldn't tell rosewood from zebrawood from onyx by the sound.  On my basses, one is onyx and the other is rosewood.  I can't tell a difference.  My electric is a rosewood fingerboard.  I have no idea about my acoustic guitars.   Rosewood seems to be the wood of choice in my price range.  I would assume that's based on a combination of availability, suitability to purpose, ease of working it for the luthier, and price. 

Of my basses, one of the bodies is solid mahogany (wonderful!) and the other is ash.  The ash is nice and light.  The solid mahogany is far from light, but MAN does it have sustain.  I could hit a note with it on the wall, go cook and eat lunch, come back and have to mute it before playing the next note.  My electric guitar is maple.  It makes a good electric body, but I don't know about acoustic.  I've seen flame maple acoustics before with 'bookmarked' patterns, but I think that's mostly for looks and not as much for sound.  But what do I know?  I'm no luthier. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude
  • From: BELGIUM
  • Registered: 2007-01-27
  • Posts: 3,403

Re: MONEY DOES GROW ON TREES

Me neither.
I know they use a lot of spruce for the top. It get's even worse knowing that wood is "living"and if you like to ruin her, play under water.
Cheaper models have a laminated top.
To have a good guitar, you need a plain top and not laminated. I also found the difference between a traditional guitar versus a flamenco guitar. Flamenco players are looking for a guitar, play short and powerful. They use more porous wood like cypress.
So a lot of acoustic guitars, have a "plain top"and the most used wood is Spruce and Cedar. Both are a kind of related, by being pine trees, and each of them will give you a different sound. Which guitar is better, it is too subjective. Like every tree is different, for example spruce, there will be a difference, wood from spruce nr 1 will sound different than spruce nr 2. They are exactly the same kind of tree, and using exact the same wood, the sound will be different.
Spruce is, and is not spruce: same tree, (used a lot for Christmas tree) will be different. Canadian spruce, German spruce....
This is really difficult and searching on the web, finding so many information, drives you crazy, end this answer but first a question about Gibson SJ-200 and Epiphone EJ-200
EPIHONE HUMMINGBIRD: 300$
- mahogany body with a solid spruce top projects rich tone that improves with age, and the bound rosewood.

GIBSON HUMMINGBIRD: 3500$
- Premium sitka spruce top,  Mahogany back and sides and Madagascar rosewood fingerboard
Comparing these 2 guitars alone, shows that the wood they used is at first sight the same.

WHAT MAKES THE DIFFERENCE, AND DO PEOPLE  NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE, playing on the epi and the gibson?

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

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  • Zurf
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Re: MONEY DOES GROW ON TREES

Based not on guitars, but on having formerly been a woodworker for a classic airplane reproduction, there's a big difference between wood from trees of the same type from different regions.  In our airplanes, we used spruce spars.  The spars had to be from a particular kind of spruce from a particular region to be aircraft grade wood.  I don't recall the type of spruce, but I do recall it was from Alaska.  The short growing seasons made for a very tight grain.  The consistant weather patterns year to year made for a very strong wood. 

Considering that other agricultural products are particular to growing methods, regions, and 'vintages' for harvest have dramatically different effects, it's my guess that the same would be true for woods. 

Whether you can hear it or not, I'd think yes - with a well-tuned enough ear.  Just like onophiles can taste the difference in wines depending on the types of soils the grapes were grown in once they've developed an experienced palate, I would expect that guitarophiles (new word, I hope you like it) could hear the differences in wood resonances or luthier workmanship. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude