Topic: What are the rules

Hi everyone,

I am not a songwriter at all, but I skim this forum to see the songs out here.
I am only a learning/beginner on the guitar, but already had lots of fun with the songs from this forum.

When playing with friends, or in my livingroom, I am sure there are no problems, but I can think of situations were legality comes into play, for instance:
- if I would go and record a song and publish either on CD or any other (online) media for money.

That one is quiet simple, when you publish a recording for commercial purposes, you need obviously permission of the author. (and fee's and other stuff)

But what if:

1) by accident I find myself in a pub (I am not being paid) in a session, and I play a song in public ? (still non-commercial)

2) not by accident, and I am paid a minimum fee for entertainment, and I play the song in a pub. (this is kind-a-commercial). Note, the "royalty fees" to the IMRO (ireland) for public performance have been taken care off.

3) I play, record, and make available on the internet (non-commercial)

I just want to make sure I do not overstep any boundaries.

Thanks in advance for your responses
Best Regards, and keep up the songs... all good fun
Edwin.

2 (edited by johncross21 2007-09-11 23:40:18)

Re: What are the rules

Hugely complicated I'm afraid

In the UK all music produced in the last 70 years is copyrighted

to perform that music outside your home / or to people other than your circle of friends you should make sure you are covered by a licence

These are available from the Performing Rights Society (PRS). They reimburse members (musicians) who have registered their music with the PRS 

However in general for live performances the PRS will issue a  licence the venue/event organiser rather than to the performer (in which case the performer does not need a separate licence)

the PRS  issues licence to pubs, club or festivals. It also provides councils with a licence for busking sites

in your case of the pub you should note that the landlord of a pub is unlikely to tolerate performances of any music unless you have his permission.

he may however be able to hire out private rooms to performers and non paying guests ( certainly for weddings and birthday parties) - in which case you don't need a licence either

the landlord may also have an events licence for non commercial events - such as open mic / performances - which he pays a licence fee to the PRS for.           

the PRS also issues licences to people using music performances online.

it may charge a fee which will depends on -  the likely audience - whether its commercial - whether it supports advertising/products - whether it is downloadable

note the law may be different in Ireland 



     

evanmierlo wrote:

Hi everyone,

I am not a songwriter at all, but I skim this forum to see the songs out here.
I am only a learning/beginner on the guitar, but already had lots of fun with the songs from this forum.

When playing with friends, or in my livingroom, I am sure there are no problems, but I can think of situations were legality comes into play, for instance:
- if I would go and record a song and publish either on CD or any other (online) media for money.

That one is quiet simple, when you publish a recording for commercial purposes, you need obviously permission of the author. (and fee's and other stuff)

But what if:

1) by accident I find myself in a pub (I am not being paid) in a session, and I play a song in public ? (still non-commercial)

2) not by accident, and I am paid a minimum fee for entertainment, and I play the song in a pub. (this is kind-a-commercial). Note, the "royalty fees" to the IMRO (ireland) for public performance have been taken care off.

3) I play, record, and make available on the internet (non-commercial)

I just want to make sure I do not overstep any boundaries.

Thanks in advance for your responses
Best Regards, and keep up the songs... all good fun
Edwin.

Re: What are the rules

Thanks for the reply, although my question is still partly open.

Fee's, to PRS / IMRO, have been paid, so that is not an issue.
The venue owner has given me the permission to perform, or even invited me.

So is it then the case that I can take a song from this forum and perform it ?
And it is the authors responsibility to be a member of the PRS / IMRO to (re)claim any fee's/royal ?

I would think that would not be fair... then again the world is not fair.. we all know that.

Re: What are the rules

i think you could technically be breaching copyright if you played a song posted on chordie without the writer's permission

most commercial writers delegate their right to issue licences and collect royalties to PRS but as you say members of chordie are unlikely to have registered with PRS

Re: What are the rules

if you are playing it live and cannot sell it in form of cd then you are ok.
If you get it recorded live and sell it as cd or dowloadabvle form then you are breaching.

As long as you are not on stage pretending to be that person singing. and I dont mean pretending to be someone through a tribute band.

You can song what you want live and get paid without getting prossecuted, as long as you are not selling it on a recorded method.

all these big bands that do covers live on stage do not pay royalties for covering a song. It is only when they put it on cd.


So, you can go out and play as much as you want like bornj again, they made a fortune on abbas songs.

Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending

Re: What are the rules

Thanks folks !

so playing live is OK... that is the answer to my questions

recording is NOT ok... (as I already knew, and detailed in my original post)
I would not do that anyway without contacting and prior permission of author(s)...


cool... lets get playing again

thanks again,
Edwin.

Re: What are the rules

evanmierlo,
     
  Something else that wasn't mentioned, is that with some groups that perform live, they will post that noone is alloud to bring in any recording device, but in todays time a simple cell phone can be used to record and noone would know. Someone is always pirrating music or movies. Try to find out which songs would be ok and stick to those. You'll find that most artists and songwriters won't have a problem with anyone perfoming their material for fund raisers and non profit events, but if you're in it for the money then try and get written either permission or some other legal documentation.
I was once a story teller and I never had any problems with my story being retold, but then again I never did it for money and I never copy writed anything either.
If you stand out on a street coner singing a song, like" A country Boy Will Survive", and people stand around throwing dimes in a hat. Then you shouldn't have any problems, but when you are paid by a club or a venue then you'll definitely need permission. Most artists won't care about the nickel and dime, but when you start rolling in the dollars then they will take notice and want their share. There are a few artisist that don't care how much you make, they still want theirs. Take for instance,Garth Brooks, A few years ago there came an issue that the artists were collecting there share of money for the sell of new music, but he brought up the issue that there were a lot of albums being resold and he wasn't getting his cut. So in essence he wanted to be paid for the initial sale of an album and if that album got resold at a used music store then he wanted to get paid again.
     If you play for fun then don't worry to much, but if you play for pay then get documentation signed and notorized.

If you're not happy with what you have...
Then you'll never be happy with what you get...

Re: What are the rules

Thanks for your reply, I knew that I was opening up a can of worms when starting to ask questions...
And I only wanted to ask to ensure we do not get into trouble and honor those and that.

so we are back with contradicting info

playing live and being paid by venue:
1) not OK as by eagleeye5851
2) OK as by upyerkilt

anyone else who want to throw in 2c ?

Re: What are the rules

if it was not ok then buskers, famnous artists, everyone near enough would be getting sued.

Probably about 95% of bands I have seen have done cover version live, but have not had it on a cd or album.

Of course it is ok.

If in the slight chance it is not ok, I cannot see anyone suing anyone over someone covering their song and not actually recording it for the purpose of making money.

You go play and tell them I said it was ok, and dont listen to anyone else ,lol

freedom of speech, freedom to roam
if I want I will recite rabbie's poem
no one will hold me down to submit
I will sing what I want and dont give a shhhhhhhhhh


Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending

Re: What are the rules

i have no problem with anyone performing" my songs" live,
but i would if they were recording them,claiming them as their own work for a proffit..ok...

love is life ,life is for love,keep a true heart and live life to the full....stay cool

Re: What are the rules

evanmierlo,
  I didn't mean to try to confuse you. If you play something for money that was written by someone else, then just understand copywrite, if you play for free, still understand, copywrite. If you play on a street corner and collect pocket change, then it isn't likely that you'll be sued, but it is always possible. Some artists are honored by other people playing their music, while others get upset. Some artists are in it for the money, while others just like what they're doing.
If you've ever seen the television show "American Idol" then you would see countless people performing songs by numerous artists, but there not selling those songs, they're selling their abilities.
If you ever become an opening act for another group at a venue or stadium or anywhere else, you'll find that everything is bidding. You can't get paid more than the headlinner. You can't play at more decibles than the headlinner, You can't sell you t-shirts cheaper than the headlinner. You can't sell your albums for less than the headlinner. It's all about the money.
If you perform something by someone else, then at least make an attempt to find out about the copywrite. Here at the company that I work at, We wanted to put paintings of different sports emblems on the walls. One of the universities sent us an e-mail stating that they wouldn't give us permission to paint their emblem on the wall, but they would send us a school flag for us to hang. Just show good faith and it will always come back to you somehow somewhere.

If you're not happy with what you have...
Then you'll never be happy with what you get...

Re: What are the rules

thanks everyone for your responses !