• From: The Land Of Song
  • Registered: 2007-12-10
  • Posts: 5,707

Topic: technique or talent?

i know you need talent to play guitar, but i think you can have all the knowledge in the world and still sound like a 3 year old running a bow over a violin. on the other hand, if you can make a guitar purr like a cat yet only know 3 chords you can make the world a happier place. i know most of the major, minor, augmented, diminished chords in the book along with 6ths, 7ths, 9ths suspended etc, but i feel i don't have that defining lead ability and sound. i'd love to sound like Clapton...how do other Chordie members feel on this subject?

Ask not what Chordie can do for you, but what you can do for Chordie.

Phill Williams's Website

2 Reply by Tenement Funster (edited by Tenement Funster 2018-04-10 20:20:42)

  • From: Nova Scotia, Canada
  • Registered: 2013-01-20
  • Posts: 4,083

Re: technique or talent?

Great topic, Phill ...

Your details remind of Mark Knopfler's words in Sultan's of Swing: "Check out guitar George, he knows all the chords."

We all admire guitarists with amazing technical skill, musical precision, speed, etc. What they can do is impressive. However, my two personal priorities are (a) creativity, and (b) feel. These are the main elements which define my favorite guitarists. The guys that can run 32nd and 64th note arpeggios are amazing and way beyond me, but it's just speed and technical skill. It typically doesn't make me feel anything, or admire the creativity (or lack thereof) in a piece like that. This isn't jealousy (I know I'm incapable) but I just don't find these elements enjoyable on their own.

On the other hand, there are those guitarists who may have those abilities, but they take back burner to their emphasis on creativity and feel in their music. Take David Gilmour for example. With a bit of work, the average guitarist can learn his solos from "Time", "Comfortably Numb", "Learning to Fly", etc. But the feel he puts into those solos through bending, use of sustain, varying his pick attack, his tremolo, etc. are the truly difficult elements to master. And they are what make Gilmour stand out as a guitarist. Ian Anderson is another one with the way he plays acoustic, i. e., nothing technically difficult, but he sounds so good.

I'm reminded of Steven Wilson (formerly of Porcupine Tree) being asked about how he got Govan Guthrie to tour with him, and he said something along these lines:

Govan can mop the floor with most of the guitarists on the planet, but most of my music doesn't have anywhere for him to feature his immense talent. Concerned, I asked him if he'd be content to play simple 4-5 note segments. To which replied, of course ... because they're the right notes."

3 Reply by Peatle Jville (edited by Peatle Jville 2018-04-11 09:47:01)

  • Registered: 2015-07-31
  • Posts: 2,793

Re: technique or talent?

I was watching Chet Atkins on youtube a while back playing and talking about guitar. He said he loved playing guitar like he did but always wished he had the talent and technique to play in other styles.

  • From: The Land Of Song
  • Registered: 2007-12-10
  • Posts: 5,707

Re: technique or talent?

TF, love that Wilson quote. It describes an all round artiste, someone who can sit in with just about anyone in any style. Peatle Some session men/women can do that and play to the style of the artiste, while some artistes want people to know who's playing on their records. After all if any of the names mentioned above would grace my music with their presence I'd want the world to know it!

Come on let's have some more views on this subject....

Ask not what Chordie can do for you, but what you can do for Chordie.

Phill Williams's Website

  • From: SC Pa
  • Registered: 2014-03-26
  • Posts: 1,348

Re: technique or talent?

Tenement Funster wrote:

The guys that can run 32nd and 64th note arpeggios are amazing and way beyond me, but it's just speed and technical skill. It typically doesn't make me feel anything, or admire the creativity (or lack thereof) in a piece like that

I couldn't agree more. A person that can shred like that certainly knows the fretboard, but I find that the feeling of a song can get lost amongst all those notes.

You all know I'm an old Deadhead. Garcia could rip across the frets and occasionally would, but his real talent, in my opinion, was his ability to pull you into a song and really feel it. The soft, melodic runs, again, my opinion, are what give a song it's soul.

Here is what I consider a fine example of those soft, melodic runs.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JHZGWD … p;index=17

__________________________________
[b]Today Is Only Yesterdays Tomorrow[/b]

6 Reply by Tenement Funster (edited by Tenement Funster 2018-04-12 14:28:55)

  • From: Nova Scotia, Canada
  • Registered: 2013-01-20
  • Posts: 4,083

Re: technique or talent?

unclejoesband wrote:
Tenement Funster wrote:

The guys that can run 32nd and 64th note arpeggios are amazing and way beyond me, but it's just speed and technical skill. It typically doesn't make me feel anything, or admire the creativity (or lack thereof) in a piece like that

Garcia could rip across the frets and occasionally would, but his real talent, in my opinion, was his ability to pull you into a song and really feel it. The soft, melodic runs, again,

Jerry Garcia is a perfect example, UJB ... amazing guitarist in every way.

Some other examples that successfully merge their high talent with soulful feel are Steve Hackett (Genesis), Nick Barrett (Pendragon), Martin Barre (Jethro Tull), Alex Lifeson (Rush), Steve Rothery (Marillion), Andy Latimer (Camel), Gary Moore (Thin LIzzy), Robert Fripp (King Crimson), Gary Greene (Gentle Giant), and Bryan Josh (Mostly Autumn) ... to name only a few.

  • From: A black hole in deep space
  • Registered: 2007-10-28
  • Posts: 7,865

Re: technique or talent?

Phill Williams wrote:

i know you need talent to play guitar, but i think you can have all the knowledge in the world and still sound like a 3 year old running a bow over a violin. on the other hand, if you can make a guitar purr like a cat yet only know 3 chords you can make the world a happier place. i know most of the major, minor, augmented, diminished chords in the book along with 6ths, 7ths, 9ths suspended etc, but i feel i don't have that defining lead ability and sound. i'd love to sound like Clapton...how do other Chordie members feel on this subject?

Wow answering this is as tough as seeking the ability I don't have all the answers and I think nobody does but I do think it has to come from the heart starting with choosing a genre you love and sticking to it I remember a quote from Amadeus the movie  "Mozart it is excellent just too many notes for the listener to process" or something to that effect. I think if anyone is passionate about what they choose to sing or play it shows so my answer would be to choose that which gives you goosebumps when you sing or play it. smile

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Russell_Harding's Website

  • From: The Land Of Song
  • Registered: 2007-12-10
  • Posts: 5,707

Re: technique or talent?

Russell_Harding wrote:
Phill Williams wrote:

i know you need talent to play guitar, but i think you can have all the knowledge in the world and still sound like a 3 year old running a bow over a violin. on the other hand, if you can make a guitar purr like a cat yet only know 3 chords you can make the world a happier place. i know most of the major, minor, augmented, diminished chords in the book along with 6ths, 7ths, 9ths suspended etc, but i feel i don't have that defining lead ability and sound. i'd love to sound like Clapton...how do other Chordie members feel on this subject?

. I think if anyone is passionate about what they choose to sing or play it shows so my answer would be to choose that which gives you goosebumps when you sing or play it. smile

I get gooseberries and sometimes raspberries smile

This is why I asked this question.... everyone has their own thoughts on the subject. Long live the guitar

Ask not what Chordie can do for you, but what you can do for Chordie.

Phill Williams's Website

  • badeye
  • The Blues Fixer
  • Offline
  • From: Cape Breton Island, Canada
  • Registered: 2006-09-02
  • Posts: 3,381

Re: technique or talent?

Good thread,,,   love the acoustic style of many..   one of the greats...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnT-QGIMrZE

badeye..   cool

one caper after another
  • From: Virginia, USA
  • Registered: 2016-02-07
  • Posts: 923

Re: technique or talent?

LoveFeliciano. He plays great and his technique is as good or better than many and to think he can not see is fantastic. He must have had a great teacher at one  point. i have watched him for a long time and his  technique shows true talent. He can not see but he feels what he plays and sings.

Music is what feelings sound like.
Music is life, that why our hearts have beats.
  • From: Western Oregon,US
  • Registered: 2008-07-22
  • Posts: 2,498

Re: technique or talent?

And there's this one by Jose that is a better example of his dedication and talent:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4fu9IFtNaM

"what is this quintessence of dust?"  - Shakespeare