• From: West Georgia
  • Registered: 2006-10-14
  • Posts: 2,557

Topic: Are There Any Beethoven Scholars Here?

Hello Everyone

I forgot if I ever mentioned that Beethoven is my all-time favorite composer? I wonder if there are others who, like me, Love his music to the point of studying it?

We recently inherited an antique music stand from the Victorian era, and would like feature it in our music room which has a corner dedicated to "The Maestro". On this music stand we would like to feature the sheet music to a symphony recently discovered unfinished and interpreted and named his "Tenth Symphony". The music was found hanging on a wall in Connecticut in the form of a "sketch" from one of his notebooks he was always carrying around with him while walking in his beloved forest.

I am afraid that is all I can tell you about it. Only that it has many crossings-out, some of them in what looks like frustration, and that is why we prefer this piece especially.

What I was able to find was a small photograph of one of the sketchbook pages, but I don't know if it can be enlarged without losing the original writings.

I went to a site once called "Talk Classical" and asked a question not related to this one and was called a "troll", so that's obviously not the site I need.

I realize this is probably as convoluted as can be, but since y'all are my go-to's with my funky questions, I was hoping one of you might be able to help.

I would like to have the sketch with the many crossings-out, but if not I believe I can download and print out the 10th Symphony on what looks like old parchment paper.

Thanks, my friends

Bill

Epiphone Les Paul Studio
Fender GDO300 Orchestral - a gift from Amy & Jim
Rogue Beatle Bass
Journal: www.wheretobud.blogspot. com

2 Reply by TIGLJK (edited by TIGLJK 2018-03-16 23:23:27)

  • TIGLJK
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  • Registered: 2010-05-11
  • Posts: 3,221

Re: Are There Any Beethoven Scholars Here?

Bill

I am not sure, but I don't think they ever concluded there was a 10th symphony.  Some guy named Cooper had pieces and put it together and filled in some.
From what I remember the quote was, " it's more of a piece that is Cooper's first rather than Beethoven's 10th" ,

It would be really cool if there was a tenth-  I love listening to Beethoven - it has such majestic components to the sound.

Good luck in your search

Jim ( from the snow capital of NY !)

Your vision is not limited by what your eye can see, but what your mind can imagine.
Make your life count, and the world will be a better place because you tried.

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  • From: Nova Scotia, Canada
  • Registered: 2013-01-20
  • Posts: 4,083

Re: Are There Any Beethoven Scholars Here?

There's no denying that Beethoven was one of the all time greats. Another favorite composer is the man who was called the French Beethoven, Camille Saint-Saens, at the Paris debut of his 3rd Symphony.

  • From: Western Oregon,US
  • Registered: 2008-07-22
  • Posts: 2,498

Re: Are There Any Beethoven Scholars Here?

How small is the photograph??  If it is high resolution and something above say 5X7, it might be enhanced and actually printed on 8.5X11 and be suitable for display. smile

"what is this quintessence of dust?"  - Shakespeare
  • From: Nova Scotia, Canada
  • Registered: 2013-01-20
  • Posts: 4,083

Re: Are There Any Beethoven Scholars Here?

Here is the 4th movement of Saint-Saens 3rd Symphony, which (IMHO) is the most majestic piece of orchestral music ever written. As I'm typing this, it's playing in the background and the tears are flowing ... it's always affected me this way. The pipe organ is the original "power chord" instrument:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hmo30e15Bzg

6 Reply by Classical Guitar (edited by Classical Guitar 2018-03-17 17:41:41)

  • From: Virginia, USA
  • Registered: 2016-02-07
  • Posts: 923

Re: Are There Any Beethoven Scholars Here?

I play lots of Beethoven on classical guitar so I know what I need to to play. I have read several books on him including one that said Beethoven  was not one but 3 people. That was the worst of the group I have read. I know Strummerboy Bill has read  and studied him. He wrote some gorgeous music and at the time it was not written for classical guitar. We have adapted to playing his music. What most books Ihave read say is he head the music in his head before he wrote it down. I know from reading some music as I learn to play it , I know as I do if it is right or not. Exact timing and note play without any muted sounds, sometimes is harder than other times. That is why the older I get the more I practice.

Music is what feelings sound like.
Music is life, that why our hearts have beats.

7 Reply by Strummerboy Bill (edited by Strummerboy Bill 2018-03-17 20:44:29)

  • From: West Georgia
  • Registered: 2006-10-14
  • Posts: 2,557

Re: Are There Any Beethoven Scholars Here?

Dear Guys

I am so excited! I am in touch with Dr. Barry Cooper, DPhil who lives and teaches in Manchester, England! I took it upon myself to write him an e-mail and he responded the next day!

I had written him about one of his discovered works - not the one in the subject above - "The Pange Lingua" which was also discovered and interpreted by Dr. Cooper. Here is his answer to me and a link to the hymn if you're interested: (I have his permission to reprint it)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr Craig,

Thank you for your enquiry about the hymn setting by Beethoven that I identified. Without seeing the page you’re referring to, with many crossings-out, I can’t say definitely whether it’s the same thing. The original manuscript doesn’t have many crossing out on that page. Anyway, I’m sending you the score of the hymn (see attachment), in my version. The first page is a plain transcription of the source in the original manuscript – everything I’ve added has been placed in [brackets] . The next 2 pages show it with the realisation of the figured bass. The last 2 pages show the same, but with 2 stanzas. These stanzas, beginning ‘Tantum ergo sacramentum’, are the last 2 stanzas of the hymn ‘Pange lingua’ and were (are) often sung on their own. Beethoven’s setting doesn’t harmonise the first phrase, since this was sung or intoned by the priest; but he does set the final Amen, sung after the last stanza. My guess is that Beethoven planned to have this sung liturgically along with his Missa solemnis – which would explain the transposition of the chant to an unusual key.



I hope you find this useful, and perhaps a chance to sing it.

Best regards

Barry Cooper
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Isn't that GREAT? No , it isn't the piece I was referring to, which is known as the sketch of the much disputed "Tenth Symphony", but I know a little more now than I did. I am enclosing a pic of the sketch here and also a link to the Pange Lingua. If I don't do it right, could someone PLEASE help me out? This is one of the most important things I have done in a long time and I don't want to miss sharing it with my family!

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/Drummerboy49/Bill%20Dondra%20and%20Bert/Beethovensketch.jpg


And the Pange Lingua hymn (Isn't it beautiful???)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkPCnodQQiYimg]


Thanks from me und Der Maestro!

Bill

Epiphone Les Paul Studio
Fender GDO300 Orchestral - a gift from Amy & Jim
Rogue Beatle Bass
Journal: www.wheretobud.blogspot. com
  • Registered: 2015-07-31
  • Posts: 2,793

Re: Are There Any Beethoven Scholars Here?

Bill Pange Lingua   it is  a very beautiful moving listen,
Thank you for sharing.
Pete

  • From: West Georgia
  • Registered: 2006-10-14
  • Posts: 2,557

Re: Are There Any Beethoven Scholars Here?

In the sketch above, does it look to y'all like someone is just a little perturbed? smile

Bill

Epiphone Les Paul Studio
Fender GDO300 Orchestral - a gift from Amy & Jim
Rogue Beatle Bass
Journal: www.wheretobud.blogspot. com
  • From: Virginia, USA
  • Registered: 2016-02-07
  • Posts: 923

Re: Are There Any Beethoven Scholars Here?

It is a painting so blame the artist not Beethoven.

Music is what feelings sound like.
Music is life, that why our hearts have beats.

11 Reply by Strummerboy Bill (edited by Strummerboy Bill 2018-03-19 21:34:21)

  • From: West Georgia
  • Registered: 2006-10-14
  • Posts: 2,557

Re: Are There Any Beethoven Scholars Here?

Oooooookay. Just making a joke on Beethoven's demeanor and his troubles getting paid for his performances and therefore being late with the rent(in the other post with the painting). If you're speaking of the representation of the sketch which I referenced above, then you may have misunderstood. I was looking at the crossings-out, it was my belief those show anger/frustration. Sorry if I was unclear, Classical Guitar.

Epiphone Les Paul Studio
Fender GDO300 Orchestral - a gift from Amy & Jim
Rogue Beatle Bass
Journal: www.wheretobud.blogspot. com
  • From: Virginia, USA
  • Registered: 2016-02-07
  • Posts: 923

Re: Are There Any Beethoven Scholars Here?

Strummerboy Bill I knew what you saying however the painting was not at all flattering to  Beethoven.

Music is what feelings sound like.
Music is life, that why our hearts have beats.