1 (edited by Tenement Funster 2018-02-26 23:00:16)

Topic: Gibson Facing Bankruptcy

There's lots of chatter about the imminent bankruptcy of Gibson Guitars, after 116 years in business. Here's just one of many articles about the issue, from CNN Money:

http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/22/news/co … index.html

S&P have downgraded Gibson Brands to a CCC - rating, which according to their ratings chart means there's very little chance of recovery:

http://www.haconsultancies.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Ratings-agencies-chart.png

Speculations abound as to how or why such a thing has happened. What do Chordians think? How does a company as iconic as Gibson get themselves in this kind of predicament?

Re: Gibson Facing Bankruptcy

over pricing. i've walked into a music shop and looked at gibbies and thought mmmm that looks nice then i look at the price and my attention goes elsewhere. and i don't like the flat, fat neck...sorry

Ask not what Chordie can do for you, but what you can do for Chordie.

Re: Gibson Facing Bankruptcy

There are alot of gibbies collecting dust in music stores around here.

Re: Gibson Facing Bankruptcy

I have never been a fan of Gibsons. I am not comfortable with the neck, the semi-acoustic (or hollow bodied electric, if you prefer) models are far too heavy and I have always considered them overpriced. However I would be very sad to see them go out of business and I am hoping for a turn round for them.

Roger

"Do, or do not; there is no try"

Re: Gibson Facing Bankruptcy

Personally, I like the fit & feel of most Gibson's, especially the neck (big hands). A couple of observations:

a) The price tags have indeed put them out of reach for all but reasonably-successful professional musicians
b) For better or worse, today's concert crowd is less drawn to musicians, and more to recording artists
c) There are many more excellent brand options now than there were even 25 years ago
d) Retrofitting a decent quality off-shore guitar with quality components is much less expensive than buying a Gibson
e) Gibson's "historic reissue" strategy will burn out when all of us old people aren't around to recall them
f) Deficit financing does not work without a credible cash flow growth strategy

I really, really, really hope their Epiphone division survives, because it truly deserves to.

Re: Gibson Facing Bankruptcy

There are a lot of videos on You Tube about the demise of Gibson. They need to pay a $300,000 Million bond in July 2018 and most don't believe they can pay it back. Gibson has bought many smaller electronic company's trying to branch out and it's not working. Part of their money problems. They also are seeing Quality issues and are trying to put out new models or new colors that aren't working for customers. Their auto tuners were a disaster and they no longer have them on new models.    Phillip McNight (Know Your Gear) has a few videos out and seems to think they will survive. Either they will reorganize in bankruptcy or someone will buy them out. He seems to think either way Gibson will be stronger for it. Only time will tell.

Re: Gibson Facing Bankruptcy

Tyson7 wrote:

Their auto tuners were a disaster and they no longer have them on new models.

I have to disagree My LP has auto tuners and I have had no issues with it, as long as the battery is charged and the guitar is strung properly it works fine. Also you have to pay attention to the details when changing strings if they are another brand or gauge you have to do a reset on the tuners and they will work just fine.

"Growing old is not for sissies"

8 (edited by Baldguitardude 2018-02-27 15:30:01)

Re: Gibson Facing Bankruptcy

Their target market is aging. New musicians are opting for electronic music - their Gibson is a laptop. Electric guitar sales are soft globally and there are more competitors than ever before.

Here are a couple of great pieces about this:
https://qz.com/1013293/rock-and-roll-is … -prove-it/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics … 511245f752

EDIT:
It turns out the CEO may also be an insufferable jerk. Here's a story for your consideration: http://gawker.com/gibson-guitar-ceo-get … 1661598680

Re: Gibson Facing Bankruptcy

Joe, the second link to the Washington Post has a $1.00 subscription charge to keep reading the article but the other links were very informative I didn't know about Gibsons problems and there CEO and Fender sales. It is true Rock is not as popular with younger audiences and the popularity of guitars seems to be on the decline times do change and electronic dance music and rap seem to be gaining the upper hand in the music business but I think there will always be an audience that enjoys Rock enough to support the industry as long as there are old geezers like me to keep thumping away lol  thanks for the info smile

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Re: Gibson Facing Bankruptcy

From what I've been told, they would spend money to buy innovative companies, then shelve the innovations and shutter the production facilities in order not to compete with their main line products. That's just crazy.

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: Gibson Facing Bankruptcy

Zurf wrote:

From what I've been told, they would spend money to buy innovative companies, then shelve the innovations and shutter the production facilities in order not to compete with their main line products. That's just crazy.

I read that somewhere too.

There was a local concrete contractor that did the same thing. He bought a completing company,  took all the cement trucks to his place and parked them. They've been sitting   there idle for close to 20 years now.

__________________________________
[b]Today Is Only Yesterdays Tomorrow[/b]

Re: Gibson Facing Bankruptcy

unclejoesband wrote:
Zurf wrote:

From what I've been told, they would spend money to buy innovative companies, then shelve the innovations and shutter the production facilities in order not to compete with their main line products. That's just crazy.

I read that somewhere too.

There was a local concrete contractor that did the same thing. He bought a completing company,  took all the cement trucks to his place and parked them. They've been sitting   there idle for close to 20 years now.

This tactic reminds me of the Borg on Star Trek, i.e., why fight 'em, when you can assimilate 'em!

http://shelleygeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/borgnanoprobes.jpg

Re: Gibson Facing Bankruptcy

unclejoesband wrote:
Zurf wrote:

From what I've been told, they would spend money to buy innovative companies, then shelve the innovations and shutter the production facilities in order not to compete with their main line products. That's just crazy.

I read that somewhere too.

There was a local concrete contractor that did the same thing. He bought a completing company,  took all the cement trucks to his place and parked them. They've been sitting   there idle for close to 20 years now.

It's a huge use of capital to purchase a company. Squandering the resources after spending all that money is something I can't wrap my head around. Not as a (usually) financially conservative individual nor as a business man who has worked on business acquisitions.

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: Gibson Facing Bankruptcy

Zurf wrote:
unclejoesband wrote:
Zurf wrote:

From what I've been told, they would spend money to buy innovative companies, then shelve the innovations and shutter the production facilities in order not to compete with their main line products. That's just crazy.

I read that somewhere too.

There was a local concrete contractor that did the same thing. He bought a completing company,  took all the cement trucks to his place and parked them. They've been sitting   there idle for close to 20 years now.

It's a huge use of capital to purchase a company. Squandering the resources after spending all that money is something I can't wrap my head around. Not as a (usually) financially conservative individual nor as a business man who has worked on business acquisitions.

It can make sense to buy competitors in industries that require huge capital outlays (and lead times) to enter, but buying substitute technologies is just goofy.

Re: Gibson Facing Bankruptcy

I can understand buying competitors, but then take advantage of their resources! Buying a competitor in order to shut down competition in a field as huge as guitar building is a fool's errand. It worked for GM back in the day, but differently. When they bought other car manufacturers, R.E. Olds, Pontiac, Fisher, etc., they incorporated them into the portfolio. Where they shuttered competition is competition through the broader industry, like cable cars for local transportation.

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: Gibson Facing Bankruptcy

I just watched a video on You Tube from The Tone King talking about this. According to him,  News agencies are reporting the Creditors want to restructure Gibson with a new CEO. It also said Gibson's CEO is blaming Stores for part of the problem. Kicking his customers under the bus. One big issue is Quality Control is suffering right now for what ever reason. And one store owner told me they would need to buy $90,000 of Gibson products to carry them. I don't think many smaller shops can swing that deal. One of the Biggest guitar shops in Wisconsin dropped Gibson Guitars. In the past they probably had a couple hundred new Gibson's on the wall at any time. That hurts Gibson for sure.

Re: Gibson Facing Bankruptcy

From what I read, there is a lot more to Gibson than guitars. It is their non musical interests that are causing the problem. Home electronics. Onkyo, TEAC and Cerwin Vega are owned by Gibson. Along with Philips Home Entertainment and Maybe Pioneer which is part of Onkyo. Guitar sales are still strong.  The fact that their guitars are expensive and out of reach for a lot of players doesn`t help matters.  My opinion is that they should have had an import line with the Gibson name a long time ago. Much like MIM Fenders and Martins. Their guitar sales are still strong. It is home electronics that are leading to their downfall.

Enjoy Every Sandwich
Nothing In Moderation  -- Live Fast. Love Hard. Die Young And Leave A Beautiful Corpse. -- Buy It Today. Cry About It Tomorrow.

Re: Gibson Facing Bankruptcy

joeyjoeyjoey wrote:

From what I read, there is a lot more to Gibson than guitars. It is their non musical interests that are causing the problem. Home electronics. Onkyo, TEAC and Cerwin Vega are owned by Gibson. Along with Philips Home Entertainment and Maybe Pioneer which is part of Onkyo. Guitar sales are still strong.  The fact that their guitars are expensive and out of reach for a lot of players doesn`t help matters.  My opinion is that they should have had an import line with the Gibson name a long time ago. Much like MIM Fenders and Martins. Their guitar sales are still strong. It is home electronics that are leading to their downfall.

they have the import line, the EPI line.  Now with the home electronics, its a fierce competition.  and most of it is with cheap crap.  I ahve wanted to rebuild a nice component system.  its almost impossible.  because to find the good quality of what was a middle of the road integrated amp like I had as a kid, your paying a lot of scratch for.

And I mentiond on FB not to long ago, my neighbor just bought a 1400 reissue LP.  And I got to tell ya, my Tradition I paid 250 for is a much easier guitar to play. (and sounds better!)

“Find your own sound.  Dont be a second rateYngwie Malmsteen be a first rate you”

– George Lynch 2013 (Dokken, Lynchmob, KXM, Tooth & Nail etc....)

Re: Gibson Facing Bankruptcy

beamer wrote:
joeyjoeyjoey wrote:

From what I read, there is a lot more to Gibson than guitars. It is their non musical interests that are causing the problem. Home electronics. Onkyo, TEAC and Cerwin Vega are owned by Gibson. Along with Philips Home Entertainment and Maybe Pioneer which is part of Onkyo. Guitar sales are still strong.  The fact that their guitars are expensive and out of reach for a lot of players doesn`t help matters.  My opinion is that they should have had an import line with the Gibson name a long time ago. Much like MIM Fenders and Martins. Their guitar sales are still strong. It is home electronics that are leading to their downfall.

they have the import line, the EPI line.  Now with the home electronics, its a fierce competition.  and most of it is with cheap crap.  I ahve wanted to rebuild a nice component system.  its almost impossible.  because to find the good quality of what was a middle of the road integrated amp like I had as a kid, your paying a lot of scratch for.

And I mentiond on FB not to long ago, my neighbor just bought a 1400 reissue LP.  And I got to tell ya, my Tradition I paid 250 for is a much easier guitar to play. (and sounds better!)

EPI is the import line. An import line with the actual Gibson name is what I am talking about.

Enjoy Every Sandwich
Nothing In Moderation  -- Live Fast. Love Hard. Die Young And Leave A Beautiful Corpse. -- Buy It Today. Cry About It Tomorrow.

Re: Gibson Facing Bankruptcy

Take a look at some of the reviews on Gibson and their "guitars" on YouTube. Those are some angry folks. I'm not going to single any of them out and leave you a link because of the language, but some of the topics I saw were the "scalloped" head stock vs the one with "ears". One guitarist showed us what he believed was the most beautiful instrument by the company he'd ever seen. Then he showed us the back of the neck: there was a red streak of paint the color of the front of that pretty guitar.

He decided he'd pass on buying it.

He ended  his review with. "Gibson isn't making the guitars people want to buy and play".

My Les Paul Epi has the scalloped head stock, but I never really paid much attention to it until I saw the YT clip.

Epiphone Les Paul Studio
Fender GDO300 Orchestral - a gift from Amy & Jim
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Journal: www.wheretobud.blogspot. com