• From: Starkville, Mississippi USA
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 2,069

Topic: Public Songbooks: More Quality - Less Quantity

Chordie is a beautiful brainchild that is maturing into a respected and popular resource.  The 'Publish Songbook' feature is fantastic.


Ideally, each published songbook should contain well-groomed versions of well-loved songs.  However, some users simply slap together a long laundry list of tunes and their songbook selections contain numerous errors.


The recently-added 'Edit' function is not very hard to use.  It allows songbook publishers to clean-up and fix any problems prior to posting their selections.


My Suggestion:

Songbook Publishers; Out of respect to the original artist (and other Chordie users), take a few minutes and clean up the tunes you intend to share.  Correct the layout, lyrics, and chords prior to posting your selections.


A songbook containing just a few nicely edited selections is far more useful than a monster-sized songbook full of mistakes and indecipherable songsheets.


In short - - - Public Songbooks: More Quality, Less Quantity

"That darn Pythagorean Comma thing keeps messing me up!"
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_comma[/url]

James McCormick's Website

  • upyerkilt
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Re: Public Songbooks: More Quality - Less Quantity

James,

I couldnt have said it better myself.

really, I really couldnt. I was thinking this before and said something along the same lines as you have done, but very true.

And some people are just too lazy to ammend songs I tihnk and leave the errors on it which doesnt help people that are trying to learn a song, especially from someones songbook, but there is the wee ratings thingy to say how accurate it is.




Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending
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Re: Public Songbooks: More Quality - Less Quantity

Good points. There are too many low quality songbooks today, and the brilliant ones are "drowning".


I did introduce star-rating to the songbooks a while ago. I might use the result of these ratings to remove songs.


For instance I could unpublish/delete all books that had a rating of less than three.


Is this too drastic?

  • From: Starkville, Mississippi USA
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 2,069

Re: Public Songbooks: More Quality - Less Quantity

Yes - suddenly zapping low-rated songbooks would be drastic, since many books (particularly older posts) have not been rated.  I do agree however that some culling process might be worth phasing in so that sloppy compilations are discouraged.


Personally I need to make it a habit of using the existing rating system when I am perusing newly posted songbook selections.  I must confess that I have clicked on some very good (and very bad) selections in various songbooks, but I have yet to utilize the rating buttons - - - However; I shall start to offer my reactions to the postings that I choose to view.


When a songbook contains many (perhaps too many) selections, I do not have the patience to look at every item.  Consequently, I am not entirely comfortable rating the entire songbook merely on the small number of items that I happen to view.  Nonetheless, I shall start rating the individual songs that I do choose to view.


Ideally, each songbook should offer a "better" version of what is available from the source sites Chordie searches.  If I wanted a version of a song printed in tiny type with lots of extraneous stuff on the page, I could simply go to those source sites and print what they offer.


However; I  would like for Chordie to continue to develop into a place where folks can go to get lyric&chord sheets that are deliberately edited so as to provide high-quality material.

"That darn Pythagorean Comma thing keeps messing me up!"
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_comma[/url]

James McCormick's Website

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Re: Public Songbooks: More Quality - Less Quantity

OK. Maybe it is too early. I will give the new rating system some time. At least I will not delete non-rated books.


I might do things like "deleting books with at least two scores below average, and nothing above". "Deleting" the book would not really be deleting it, it is just marking it as "unpublished" in the users songbook-list.


I could also notify the owner of the book that his/her book is no longer online, and ask them to go online if they do not like this. I will have to think about this some more.


Anyway: All ideas that would make the songbook-section easier to navigate would be great.


Here are some ideas I have been thinking about. Please give feedback:

* Adding "genres" like "country","rock","campfire","love songs" etc But havent found a good system for this. What genres to use? Can a song be multiple genres? What about those that just says the book is "all" genres?

* Adding a "search-filter"-function. Like entering "Dylan" and get just the books that contains this word (incl abstract, artists, titles).

* Marking the songbooks where at least one of the songs have been edited. These tend to have higher quality. Do anyone have an idea about how they could be marked?

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Re: Public Songbooks: More Quality - Less Quantity

I dont know if the rating system tell you how many votes have been casted, but maybe after 30 votes or another set number?. But maybe a book would be good but the first 30 people out of thousands didnt like it and voted it low.

Or it could be that a good song book does not appeal to someone because there are no songs a particular person likes and this will make them rate it low. So there could be a few complications there.


And as for the lay out of the songs, some people , like me will like t osee the lyrics with the chords above whereas others would just like the tab versions of songs.


maybe, if it is easy enough to do, set the public songbooks so you can not have two songs the same in the songbook and got to have over 20 before allowing it to go public?



Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending
  • From: Starkville, Mississippi USA
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 2,069

Re: Public Songbooks: More Quality - Less Quantity

My guess is that each songbook gets the most exposure soon after it goes public.  Personally, the 'new songbooks' window is typically the first thing I look at after logging in to the site.  A system whereby songbooks are rated within the first week or so of going public has merits.


You bring up a good point regarding rater's personal taste when rating a songbook.  Ideally, the type of songs should not be a factor - but if the most avid users&raters are heavymetal headbangers, a book featuring plaintive ballads and soul-searching ditties will not be recieved warmly.


Nevertheless, the site and the users will benefit from individuals who polish their selections prior to publishing a songbook.


Regarding layout of songs . . . the site is called "Chordie" not "Tabbie".  If someone is interested in playing a song note-for-note exactly as it happens to be played in a particular recording, then the best resource would be a site that features Tabs.


I prefer the chord format since it allows me to get the primary structural elements of a song and then go from there on my own.  I guess that is because I am primarily a singer - the instrument is just a means to an end, not the end itself.  Consequently, the chord format is preferable to Tabs for me.

"That darn Pythagorean Comma thing keeps messing me up!"
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_comma[/url]

James McCormick's Website

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Re: Public Songbooks: More Quality - Less Quantity

yeah,

chordie it is and chords it should be, but what I was saying ( I think) is if someone does prefer tabs they will give a low rating to a chord structure because it is not the way it is laid out for them, I know it would be wrong of them to do it but knowing the way people are, they would.



Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending
  • From: Starkville, Mississippi USA
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 2,069

Re: Public Songbooks: More Quality - Less Quantity

Perhaps all songbooks could be available for 30 days (or so).  After that initial posting books with 'low' ratings could be retired and books with 'high' ratings could be extended.


Exemplary selections from highly-rated songbooks could be featured so as to give folks an idea of what to aim for.


Also, perhaps a limit of 10 or 20 (or whatever) songs could be placed on songbooks.  This would help publishers to prioritze their selections and encourage them to groom each item before posting a book.

"That darn Pythagorean Comma thing keeps messing me up!"
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_comma[/url]

James McCormick's Website

  • upyerkilt
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Re: Public Songbooks: More Quality - Less Quantity

yeah that sounds not too bad, but depends on Pere. Would this be easy enoug hto do Pere?

and what do you think of this idea?



Ken


p.s.what would happen to all the public ones just now? Just wiped off?

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending
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Re: Public Songbooks: More Quality - Less Quantity

It is possible. Just have to find an easy way of doing this, without annoying people that get their books "unpublished".


Cleaning up once in a while is easier than letting them live for 30 days. But both things are definately possible.


pere/admin

  • From: Starkville, Mississippi USA
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 2,069

Re: Public Songbooks: More Quality - Less Quantity

The goal should simply be some mechanism whereby the list of published songbooks is a "go-to" spot on the web - not just an ad hoc show-and-tell:

"Hey everybody . . . these are some songs I like (but I don't like them enough to post a decent-looking or accurate version)."


Perhaps I am being too persnickety about all this - maybe everything is just fine the way it is . . . but I can't help but feel that Chordie's unique Public Songbook feature can evolve into a potent resource for accurate, usable, and transposable songsheets.


At any rate, I hope others with thoughts on this topic will voice their ideas.  Ultimately, I hope more people will discover and exploit the potenital of Chordie's songbook feature. 


Likewise, this site is somebody else's darling brainchild - and I don't want to tell people how they should raise their children!


For the next two weeks I shall be hiking in Yosemite National Park with my son, my father, my sister, and a niece.  A grand adventure!

"That darn Pythagorean Comma thing keeps messing me up!"
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_comma[/url]

James McCormick's Website

  • upyerkilt
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Re: Public Songbooks: More Quality - Less Quantity

enjopy yer trip James


I am off myself on friday to the isle of Jura on the west coast of scotland for 5 days walking/drinking/fishing/more drinking/and having a good time.



Byefurthenoo


Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending
  • From: Starkville, Mississippi USA
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 2,069

Re: Public Songbooks: More Quality - Less Quantity

Sounds wonderful - that is truly the edge of the world out there.  I took a bicycle trip around the Britian, Scotland, Ireland, and Wales.  Rode the ferry out to Isle of Harris and Lewis becuase I wanted to see the Standing Stones of Callenish and some other sights. 


I can vividly remember riding into the wind whipping in off the North Atlantic - seems that no matter which direction I was headed, it was a headwind.


Enjoy your adventure - catch some big ones.

"That darn Pythagorean Comma thing keeps messing me up!"
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythagorean_comma[/url]

James McCormick's Website