Criticism

Hi ed,I am not a songwriter but I think some of those people should try too help instead of telling you, you are not doing that good

Feed back  good  or  bad  is  ok  as long  as  people  take  the  time to listen to  what  you've  done

Gidday

Good subject,i`m not a song writer,i just scribble stuff down.
Some times i call it a song sometimes a poem.
I don`t care what anyone thinks,i just need to get them out
of my head and written down some where.Hence i probably won`t get any good.
If someone likes it as is thats a bonus.
Funny thing though,i gave a song to a friend.She did it, really differently
to how i did it.At first i was flattered that someone wanted one of my
scribbles. Really loved what she did to it,but she added two lines,they
where rhyme lines.
I felt that changed the whole integrity,I`m still not sure how i feel now.

I'm not a songwriter, although I do jot some poetry every so often. I've never been good at finding the "right tune" for most of my poetry, so that's that.

My own sense is that most attempts at anything in life will come under criticism by someone, somewhere. If we're attempting something because we crave the accolades of others, then we'll likely reap a lot of hurt feelings throughout life. BUT ... if you enjoy what you do, and it gives you satisfaction and pleasure to keep doing it, then who really cares what others think? We know that many professional musicians have had to change their image significantly in order make sales, and that's always unfortunate ... Phil Collins comes to mind. But staying true to what you enjoy is key, which I guess is why there are sooooo many genres of music. Something for everyone!

Artie ...  I love your songwriting cycle; made me grin!

DE, I like the needed to work on list. It's a great list to serve as a songwriters guide. We all write songs in our own format. Their are no hard and fast rules about how to write a good song. Critique is always good but in some cases can crush the writer. If you are looking for critique you must be prepared for all and any unfavorable opinions. And I do say opinion. The end result of a really good song is what your audience thinks of it. They will determine if the song is truly well written and they can relate to it. The song you expect to be good may not be the one your audience likes. I myself have played and recorded friends songs. I don't do them the same way they do. It's the way I hear the music or lyrics. It's my opinion about how the song should be. The way my friend wrote the song is not wrong, It's how they tell the story and how they felt when they wrote it. The more you play your songs for people the more you get the feel for how they accept them. The better your story telling gets , the more you see the songs become accepted. The more you write the better writer you will become. Even the best songwriters can be criticized, so don't be disappointed by what people say about your work. Listen to your audience they'll let you know what they like.

Joe

Interesting comments.  What prompted me to initiate this thread was finding some old comment sheets from 10 years ago when I was attending the critique classes.  10 years later I still need to work on many of the things I listed.  What I miss is the honesty in the critiques. Through the group I learned that as songwriters or artists we have a "vision" for an artistic work but that vision alone can't create art and we must employ necessary skills to render the vision on canvas or in a song. On the other hand, if all we have are the necessary skills but lack artistic vision, then new art is still not created. The goal is to marry the vision with the "craftmanship" necessary to best display our work so studying the various methods and techniques that can be used by songwriters or artists creates a bigger "toolbox" for a songwriter/artist to use.  The group motto was "no rules - just tools". 

Like most of us, I write songs mostly to fulfil some sort of artistic "need" , not to pitch or sell for profit.  However, even though we basically write songs for ourselves, the purpose of a song is to be played and heard by others, not to be locked up like entries in a diary.  So from my perspective if the plan is to let others hear our songs, we should at least try to make it our best effort.....  Kinda like selecting the best rods, reels and lures before a fishing trip or sprucing up your house before guests arrive.

I've usually had very good audience acceptance of my songs Joe, and its a great feeling to be on a stage when folks are into what you're playing.  As you said, occasionally I'll get a real positive reaction to what I consider to be one of my poorest crafted songs although the ones I've put more thought and technical effort into seem to have a higher "acceptance" percentage, so learning about the "craft" of songwriting has helped me considerably with my songwriting efforts.  I've also had the honor of having a few other musicians play some of my tunes and personally I like it when they adapt it to their own style.

Phil, i agree with what you're saying, but It's hard to critique a song if all you see are the lyrics and chord notations but can't hear the accompanying rhythm and melody. 

DE

While on this topic,,, Jets and DE I got something ill be sending for advice/ help with as soon as I can get it typed up.

Great input Jeff.  You wrote: " If a song doesn't catch me or interest me, I will not try to help fix it so that it does. I don't like to give criticism on songs I don't enjoy reading, playing or listening to so I usually refrain from commenting on those songs."

I think most of us don't want to provide negative critiques so we refrain from commenting - even if the songwriter is asking us to be honest.  However there is still something to be learned. When I hear a new song that doesn't "catch or interest me" I try to analyze why.  Sometimes its merely the subject matter or genre.  If it's a genre I don't particularly care for then I realize its just a matter of musical taste and stop there. But if it's in a genre I normally write in I'm intrigued why the song didn't work for me as the listener.  I know the songwriter was trying to say or show me something that was important enough to write a song about so I try to figure out what it was about the song that didn't grab my attention. By analyzing what was effective or not affective, I can apply it to my own songwriting.

Was the subject matter personal to the writer but not applicable to me or other listeners?
Were the lyrics poorly written or hard to follow?
Was the rhyme scheme inconsistent and distracting?
Were the rhymes "forced" and not free-flowing?
Did each verse provide new information to peak my interest as a listener?
Did the hook/chorus or bridge provide lyrical and musical contrast to grab my attention?
If there wasn't a chorus or bridge (VVV type song) were the verses too weak to stand on their own? - if so was it due to lyrics/music/both?
Does the time signature/beat/groove support the lyrics and theme of the song?
Does the chord structure (minors/majors, etc) complement the lyrics and theme?
Does the melody/vocal range enhance the lyrics? (do accents in the melody stress important song parts or is melody range too narrow producing a "droning" feel)

As several have said, we critique songs by our own personal "yardstick".  What has one listener yelling for more may induce another to scratch their head and wonder what all the hoopla is about. That's why there's so many different genres. For me, analyzing songs similar to my own writing style helps me choose the the best tools from my own toolbox when creating a new song. Unfortunately my toolbox still has saws and chisels that could be sharper

DE