1 Topic by guitargarden (edited by guitargarden 2013-12-28 00:28:50)

  • Registered: 2013-12-27
  • Posts: 4

Topic: Missing Martin Custom Jumbo: Last seen 11/15 Madeira Beach, Florida

Appreciate your help if you come across my Martin Custom Jumbo guitar. It has a Sitka Spruce top and Honduran Mahogany top. The serial number is: 992248.

It was last seen in Madeira Beach, Florida on 11/15/13, 6:05 p.m., when delivered to a buyer's front door by UPS. UPS sent a message confirming delivery shortly after delivery, 6:31 p.m.

The buyer was provided with the tracking number and 11/15/13 delivery date on 11/12/13.

The buyer notified me two days after delivery, on 11/17/13, that the guitar is missing.

PayPal has refunded the amount paid to the buyer.

UPS has investigated twice and concluded twice that the guitar was delivered to the buyer's address. We have asked UPS yo keep looking. The sheriff's department is also involved. Been told that the UPS truck can be seen on video entering the gated condo community shortly before the delivery time.

Truly a case of no good deed goes unpunished. We offered the Martin for sale at a reasonable rate, seeking only to recoup the amount paid for it. Purchased with the intent of a family member learning to play, it was not being used enough; therefore, we decided to sell it in order to pay bills. Since I am not able to leave work to ship during the work day and the buyer hoped to receive the Martin by 11/15/13, my husband offered to ship it for me. He shipped as he normally does for work, without adult signature required or insurance through UPS, because when shipping for work, the company's business paperwork and insurance apply. He had a busy day too, and the oversight was inadvertent.

Unfortunately, we're now out the guitar and payment. Even had he opted for the signature, UPS may have left the package anyway, but we'll never know. What we do know is that if the buyer had alerted us to the fact he would not be home for the 11/15/13 delivery, we would have contacted UPS and had it held for pickup at the nearest UPS site. Sad to say, it's an expensive experience.

Please contact me if you see this very nice Martin.

2 Reply by topdown (edited by topdown 2013-12-28 00:32:22)

  • From: Madeira Beach, Florida
  • Registered: 2007-12-05
  • Posts: 3,312

Re: Missing Martin Custom Jumbo: Last seen 11/15 Madeira Beach, Florida

Folks here know all to well about this story. I am truly sorry you came out on the worse end of this deal. If it ever does show up, I may still be interested in purchasing.

Jeff

Rule No. 1 - If it sounds good - it is good!
  • From: Madeira Beach, Florida
  • Registered: 2007-12-05
  • Posts: 3,312

Re: Missing Martin Custom Jumbo: Last seen 11/15 Madeira Beach, Florida

Yeah -It's my fault I made last minute plans to leave town. It's my fault that I have a job and cannot afford to sit at home all day to meet the UPS truck. Sorry Lady - All it took was requiring a signature as POD - as required by PayPals User Agreement. And to not insure something as valuable as this guitar was just asinine - what if it had showed up and was damaged in shipping. No ma'am - this ones on you.

I offered to buy it still if it was found and I get a pissy email stating it would be sold elsewhere. Face the Music and stop blaming me - PayPal ruled in my favor because you erred in shipping.

Rule No. 1 - If it sounds good - it is good!
  • dino48
  • Honoured Member
  • Offline
  • From: los banos,california
  • Registered: 2007-04-06
  • Posts: 6,801

Re: Missing Martin Custom Jumbo: Last seen 11/15 Madeira Beach, Florida

jeff seems like they did not use any common sense when they did not insure it.as I read it her hubbys co had ins?

my papy said son your going too drive me too drinking if you dont stop driving that   Hot  Rod  Lincoln!! Cmdr cody and his lost planet airman
  • zguitar
  • Don't call me Sir
  • Offline
  • From: Mentone, Ca
  • Registered: 2009-01-10
  • Posts: 1,367

Re: Missing Martin Custom Jumbo: Last seen 11/15 Madeira Beach, Florida

Why would she register here and post about the missing guitar over a month later? I seriously doubt that there are a ton of people from the Madeira Beach, Florida area that visit Chordie.


What was the cost of the guitar Jeff?

Keep Rockin!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Zurf
  • Zurf
  • Blunt but well meaning moderator
  • Offline
  • From: Virginia, USA
  • Registered: 2007-06-27
  • Posts: 7,522

Re: Missing Martin Custom Jumbo: Last seen 11/15 Madeira Beach, Florida

Always insure anything shipped if it is excess of $100. Especially if the buyer is paying for shipping costs. it's protection for you without a dime out of your pocket. Why would you not do that? 

A thief did take advantage of you, but there is no way that the thief was the buyer. Absolutely no way. Not this time. I'd sooner believe that my mother was a werewolf than believe Topdown is a thief.

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude
  • From: A black hole in deep space
  • Registered: 2007-10-28
  • Posts: 7,865

Re: Missing Martin Custom Jumbo: Last seen 11/15 Madeira Beach, Florida

I agree with everything Zurf said, its a sad story but with a little common sense it could have been avoided.

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Russell_Harding's Website

  • From: Almancil, Algarve, Portugal
  • Registered: 2006-09-02
  • Posts: 6,205

Re: Missing Martin Custom Jumbo: Last seen 11/15 Madeira Beach, Florida

All of us regulars on Chordie know that Jeff is as honest as the day is long and know of his excitement when he found this guitar for sale. We also all know the distress and disappointment he suffered when this guitar went missing.

Although I sympathise with the seller, the blame for the loss sits fairly and squarely on their door, and this is definitely not the place to come to try and pass the blame on Jeff.

Roger

"Do, or do not; there is no try"

Roger Guppy's Website

  • beamer
  • beamer
  • THE METALIZER. Naughty Rocker Boy.
  • Offline
  • From: WASHINGTON ST
  • Registered: 2006-07-29
  • Posts: 2,811

Re: Missing Martin Custom Jumbo: Last seen 11/15 Madeira Beach, Florida

So they are blocked out right mods??  I now know who stay away from for sure.

“Find your own sound.  Dont be a second rateYngwie Malmsteen be a first rate you”

– George Lynch 2013 (Dokken, Lynchmob, KXM, Tooth & Nail etc....)
  • From: A black hole in deep space
  • Registered: 2007-10-28
  • Posts: 7,865

Re: Missing Martin Custom Jumbo: Last seen 11/15 Madeira Beach, Florida

beamer wrote:

So they are blocked out right mods??  I now know who stay away from for sure.

I don't think anyone is blocked out as you put it there would have to be more serious reasons involved to earn a ban

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Russell_Harding's Website

11 Reply by guitargarden (edited by guitargarden 2013-12-28 15:06:02)

  • Registered: 2013-12-27
  • Posts: 4

Re: Missing Martin Custom Jumbo: Last seen 11/15 Madeira Beach, Florida

Unfortunately, the Martin Custom Jumbo guitar has disappeared.

We trust that the buyer has searched for it. UPS has looked for more than a month now. The sheriff's department hasn't come across it yet. No one on another forum or the stolen guitar registry has found it. It hasn't turned up in local guitar shops and pawn shops, as far as we've heard. We contacted all within days of learning of the guitar's disappearance.

Now that they've tried for a while, we are trying to locate the guitar in this broader way on forums, in hopes it turns up and is returned to us. Chordie.com is one such place. True, more than a month has passed; we don't wish to give up hope and stop searching. As guitar aficionados, forum members typically have more contact with guitars than most people do, and it is possible that someone will see it and let us know. We hope so.

Anyone else ever make a mistake? Yes, my husband's shipping without insurance and signature requirement resulted in an expensive mistake. Call it stupid if desired. It was an inadvertent oversight that happened in the midst of a busy day. My husband ships for business on a regular basis. When he does so, no extra UPS signature paperwork and insurance are needed. Instead, company paperwork and insurance apply. He was in a rush (during a busy work day, the first day back after a three-day holiday weekend) to ship the guitar in order to get it to the buyer by Friday, 11/15, as the buyer wished. It's not a company-related product, so no insurance applies to the guitar shipment, consequently. Mistake, yes -- not typical of him. Blame him, say he lacked common sense, call him stupid if it helps, choose not to help search, but we'll continue to look for the guitar.

We also understand that not everyone one wants to take time off from work receive a package. There are plenty of options. UPS ships with a tracking number, as was provided here. With the tracking number, a buyer may contact UPS and arrange a more convenient delivery time, have a package held for pickup at a UPS site, or have it delivered to an alternative site such as a neighbor, work site, or condo office. Alternatively, a buyer may contact a seller so that the seller may contact UPS and make a different delivery arrangement. Drivers can even be contacted on their trucks by their supervisors; a quick call to the terminal can accomplish that -- we've done so with deliveries coming to us. None of those options happened here.

Again, the guitar was delivered on Friday, 11/15, 6:05 p.m. UPS confirmed delivery in a message sent to buyer and seller on Friday, 11/15, 6:31 p.m. Two days later, the buyer contacted me, on Sunday evening, 11/17, with the news that the guitar was missing, as discovered by his son on Friday night, 11/15, 6:30 p.m. Yes, we were surprised to receive this disappointing information, especially coming two days after delivery.

As an aside, the signature requirement is not foolproof. UPS sometimes leaves packages anyway without one. Buyers also leave releases at times, and packages are left. PayPal only protects a seller if certain conditions apply, including the buyer's signature (for items $250 and over, as discovered recently) and shipping to the address listed on the transaction. For most buyers, that is their home address.

Nor is shipping insurance a fail safe. Here, for example, UPS has concluded that the package containing the Martin was properly delivered to the buyer's address.

Bottom line is that we're the owners of the Martin Custom Jumbo, and are still hoping that it will be located and returned to us, safe and sound. Over the years, we've sold several guitars (eBay, Craigslist, and another forum), and successfully shipped them (with insurance and signature requirement). Again, call the oversight with the signature requirement and insurance stupid if preferred, but we still hope to recover the Martin. Maybe too, others will learn something from this mistake and avoid an expensive error.

Thanks for your help.

  • From: Madeira Beach, Florida
  • Registered: 2007-12-05
  • Posts: 3,312

Re: Missing Martin Custom Jumbo: Last seen 11/15 Madeira Beach, Florida

I'm done debating this - especially on a public forum. PayPal ruled in my favor for a reason - enough said.

I do wish this had turned out differently and I am sorry you lost out on this guitar. Best of luck with the recovery.

Rule No. 1 - If it sounds good - it is good!

13 Reply by guitargarden (edited by guitargarden 2013-12-28 15:30:29)

  • Registered: 2013-12-27
  • Posts: 4

Re: Missing Martin Custom Jumbo: Last seen 11/15 Madeira Beach, Florida

True, as we discovered, for items valued at $250 and above, PayPal requires the buyer's signature viewable online, along with other conditions being met. We'll leave the other conditions for interested parties to read for themselves on PayPal's website.

Except for the signature, all other conditions were met. Admittedly, my husband was not aware of that PayPal signature condition, which is needed for a seller to prevail with PatPal. PayPal would not accept a signature from UPS, indicating delivery to the buyer's transaction address, although one was offered. Not enough that delivery is made to a buyer's front door, and that UPS confirms delivery. Didn't matter to PayPal that we received notice that the guitar was missing two days after delivery.

Agreed, wish circumstances had been different and we had known a different delivery option was needed. Would have been glad to have the guitar held for pickup.

Hope prevails. Please let us know as soon as it is found. Thanks!

  • From: NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-26
  • Posts: 4,320

Re: Missing Martin Custom Jumbo: Last seen 11/15 Madeira Beach, Florida

I understand you being upset.  Out not only the money, but also the guitar.  I would be upset too.  I'd be beating myself over the head for the oversight with the signature, or rather, I'd be berating my husband likely (that's me... I'm NOT calling YOUR husband names... I WOULD call mine names though!  LOL).  I'd also be furious with UPS, although clearly they didn't do anything wrong here (I'd secretly be wondering if the driver actually stole it after seeing no one was home).  Not knowing the buyer, I'd be wondering about him as well.  I can see your frustration clear as day.  It's a LOT of money to be out especially around the holidays. 

That said, the buyer is a moderator on this forum.  He is also a close friend to quite a few people on this forum.  As another said, I would sooner believe my mother was a werewolf than the buyer stole the guitar.  Please understand that on this forum we don't allow the bashing of other members.  We won't allow it toward TopDown or Yourself.  The information about the missing guitar was already posted on this forum, once the guitar was missing, possibly even before you were contacted in the hopes that it could be found and received by the buyer.  He was certain that it was mis-delivered, and astonished that it was in fact stolen.  Who DOESN'T WANT a MARTIN? 

Anyway, my point here is... lets keep this forum as friendly as it has been... EVERYONE... and hope that someone WILL find the guitar and return it.  A thief doesn't deserve a Martin so beautiful as that one.

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

mekidsmom's Website

  • From: Virginia, USA
  • Registered: 2009-06-12
  • Posts: 873

Re: Missing Martin Custom Jumbo: Last seen 11/15 Madeira Beach, Florida

Is this the guitar?

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/msd/4230667455.html

Dj

16 Reply by guitargarden (edited by guitargarden 2013-12-29 18:04:26)

  • Registered: 2013-12-27
  • Posts: 4

Re: Missing Martin Custom Jumbo: Last seen 11/15 Madeira Beach, Florida

Naoslager, Thanks for looking. That's not the one, unfortunately.

Mekidsmom, Comments not intended to be bashing Topdown. Did not say that it's believed that the buyer stole the guitar. Take him at his word that he was 250 miles away on Amelia Island, as written on this forum, at the time of delivery. Just wish that circumstances and communications had been different. Think we all want to have safe transport and delivery of guitars. First one that has ever ended up disappearing on us -- and first one without the signature requirement and insurance.

Please understand that this whole thing is upsetting. Upsetting that my husband forgot to add the signature requirement and insurance. Upsetting to read that our guitar ends up being the one and only package among many that has disappeared from the buyer's front door after delivery without a signature (but yes, we are glad he has not had others disappear, including the $10,000 engagement ring). Upsetting to read on this forum that the buyer would have been home at 6:00 p.m. had he not gone away on the day of delivery. Upsetting not to have had the information that he would not be there ahead of time, so we could call UPS and have the package held. Upsetting to read that his son arrived home at 6:30 p.m., with instructions to bring the package inside but not open the case, and discovered the guitar missing. Upsetting to have had UPS send both of us a message confirming delivery, which came through at 6:31 p.m., and read that the buyer received it. Upsetting to learn, two days later, that the guitar was missing. Upsetting to have lost two days that we could have been looking for the guitar. Upsetting to be called "stupid" and "asinine", despite trying to get the guitar to the buyer by Friday, as he wished, and after sending him (on Tuesday) the tracking information with Friday designated for delivery. Upsetting to be out the guitar and the cash. Upsetting to think that a very nice guitar is possibly being trashed.

Lesson learned here! My husband will remember the signature requirement and insurance. Most likely no more PayPal sales, and no more UPS though. Probably no more shipping to residences either; instead, probably shipping to a delivery site with a photo identification required for pickup.

As for contacting the local Sheriff's Office, we did so based on the premise the Martin disappeared from the buyer's front door and in hopes of recovering the Martin sooner rather than later. We also regarded it as a necessary step in light of our UPS claim. Based on a conversation with the detective, our understanding is that Florida shops accepting used items for resale, such as guitars, are legally required to report them to law enforcement. According to the detective, that includes pawn shops as well as shops such as Guitar Center which buy and sell used guitars. She has photos, along with the serial number of the Martin, and has been checking the information against inventory lists.

  • From: Madeira Beach, Florida
  • Registered: 2007-12-05
  • Posts: 3,312

Re: Missing Martin Custom Jumbo: Last seen 11/15 Madeira Beach, Florida

Please just let this thread die. I appreciate all of the support, but everything that can be said has been said.

Rule No. 1 - If it sounds good - it is good!
  • From: A black hole in deep space
  • Registered: 2007-10-28
  • Posts: 7,865

Re: Missing Martin Custom Jumbo: Last seen 11/15 Madeira Beach, Florida

topdown wrote:

Please just let this thread die. I appreciate all of the support, but everything that can be said has been said.

I agree close the topic nuff said

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Russell_Harding's Website

  • From: NY
  • Registered: 2009-08-26
  • Posts: 4,320

Re: Missing Martin Custom Jumbo: Last seen 11/15 Madeira Beach, Florida

Agree.  Close the thread, information for contact is here in the event it is found.

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

mekidsmom's Website

  • From: Probably Somewhere
  • Registered: 2010-12-09
  • Posts: 2,446

Re: Missing Martin Custom Jumbo: Last seen 11/15 Madeira Beach, Florida

Closed per multiple requests.