Grrrrrrrrrrr.'[

It's not that I'm doing that as a punishment or for peer pressure Astro.  She's got the work to do and I'm not going to do it for her.  I'm also not going to let her not do the work.  While I think your approach would be good, I think she'd take the time to screw off and not do her work - meaning that we'd still have the frustration of forcing her to work.  Also, with her age the state would have something to say about us leaving her alone.  She's old enough, but not according to our county government, aka Nannies with Cops.

The problem is that she doesn't do it.  Seriously.  There's no underlying anything that we can tell.  We're trying to teach the lesson that there are people in the world who really can tell you what to do, that they don't care what your opinion is about it, and they can make your life very unpleasant if you don't do it.  It's not fair from her point of view and that's just a darned shame.

I have to agree with Astro on this.  I think, after looking back on my child rearing days, that teaching responsibility and the fact that there should be consequences for everything we do, is the number one thing we can teach our children so they may go out into the world with that firm foundation.  I can't think of anything more important than teaching respnsibility to our children.

I feel glad my days are done raising mine,I can see some ofwhat I went through by reading your posts.I had a double whammy though I was done with my two sons and after that I got re-married and three more came with the deal,that made my life pretty bad as I really had too play a balancing act. We somehow got through it,and I do not think I would do the stepkids again.

My daughter has just finished high school FOR EVER, so now she thinks she is an adult, and has no curfews or rules. WRONG!!. She hasnt yet realised that with adulthood comes adult reponsibilities and decsions. But i guess life experience is all about learning that for yourself, and even making a few mistakes along the way. At 57 I'm still doing that!!.

Sounds like excellent parenting to me.

I'm by no means an expert at this.  I favor corporal punishment at home and in schools, but I don't think it is necessary to beat a kid into submission.  The key is to break the will, but not the spirit.

I have found (mainly by watching what I consider to be gross errors made by other parents), that what needs to be done is set boundaries and establish cause and effect.  For example:  "if you do/don't do [this], then [this] will be the result."  That can be both positive and negative, and you really need both.  Make the kid understand that there are consequences for their actions.

Most parents try to do this, but where they screw up is that the don't follow through on the consequences side.  When this happens, kids learn to manipulate and get what they want, regardless of the cause and effect that they were told about.

As much as it can hurt, parents MUST follow though with "threats".  As I was trying to say earlier, this is especially effective if the consequences prevent older siblings from having their fun, because the older siblings' "peer pressure" can do a lot of your dirty work for you.

Glad it turned out OK for you Zurf.  Again, nice work from my vantage point.

Late Edit:  When my son was about 6 years old his cousins (my wife's brother's kids) were visiting.  The cousins started acting up (fighting) and would not settle down after repeated attempts at intervention.  I heard their mom say:  "I'm going to count to three . . ."

I immediately looked at my son and said:  "Understand this:  I don't count.  When I tell you to do something, it gets done.  Understood?"

My son and I are best friends now.  He has often thanked me for the way I raised him.  My advice to him now is:  Be a better parent than I was.  Learn from my mistakes and make your kids better than you are.  I believe if we can do that, the world will get better over time, and not worse.

If it works for you, fine.  To each his own.  At least you are following through with your stated consequences.

I'll shut up on this topic.  I learned a long time ago that parenting is a very personal thing.  I would never presume to tell another person how to parent.  (As much as I would like to sometimes.)

An update (some 15 years later):  My son's cousins (whose parents often did NOT follow through) are VERY troubled young adults.  My son is quite stable, responsible and balanced.  My wife's brother has told her in the past that we are "lucky".  My answer is "No (frankly) we did our jobs as parents, whereas you didn't."

I've never actually told him that (because it would be too crass) but that's how I feel.

"....Most parents try to do this, but where they screw up is that the don't follow through on the consequences side.  When this happens, kids learn to manipulate and get what they want, regardless of the cause and effect that they were told about.

As much as it can hurt, parents MUST follow though with "threats".  As I was trying to say earlier, this is especially effective if the consequences prevent older siblings from having their fun, because the older siblings' "peer pressure" can do a lot of your dirty work for you..."

This has been a problem in our house. My wife would threaten and not follow-up. The kids got so they would ignore her. I never made a threat unless I intended to follow up on it. Of course that caused another issue as the kids would then cry to mom and get what they wanted. This went on for some time until I told my wife that  when I was taking care of the kids (while she was at work, shopping, etc...) she was not to reverse punishments I decided upon while she was gone.

For years now the kids still tend to ignore the wife unless I step in and when I threaten punishment they know it will happen. All have learned the hard way.

We're back to watching every move and constant direction this morning.  Yeah.  It's so much fun.

That one is going into the portfolio. 

Wow, I feel right at home reading all this.