1 (edited by joeyjoeyjoey 2012-07-18 17:51:43)

Topic: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

Being unable to do anything for a few days. I have all this time on my hands to look at news and go online. I don`t know how to put the link on, and the story is on my facebook page. Either way, the channel 7 news in San Diego has a story of a man who went to audition for a band. Another went up to him saying he liked his guitar and offered to buy it. When he said it wasn`t for sale, The man took it from him and said "now it`s my guitar". He was caught and the ax was recovered, that is not the point. I personally don`t take kindly to anyone treating someone elses guitar or any instrument in a disrespectful manner. Example: at a flea market. An overpriced Kent electric was there. These two teenage boys took it and started acting stupid with it. I told my daughter that they didn`t play, because nobody that played would treat someone elses guitar like that. I asked her if she would do that, or would she like it if two idiots did that to one of her guitars. She saw my way of thinking. I am sure that nobody will disagree with me on this one. I think I have too much time on my hands this week.

Enjoy Every Sandwich
Nothing In Moderation  -- Live Fast. Love Hard. Die Young And Leave A Beautiful Corpse. -- Buy It Today. Cry About It Tomorrow.

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

Agree on all counts buddy.

You can see all my video covers on [url]http://www.youtube.com/bensonp1000[/url]
I have finally found happiness in my life.  Guitars, singing, beer and camping.  And they all intertwine wonderfully.

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

Here's the story:

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/weird/G … 83246.html


I would have beat that guy until the cops got there. Why are people so stupid? Frustrates me to no end.

Keep Rockin!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

zguitar wrote:

Here's the story:

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/weird/G … 83246.html


I would have beat that guy until the cops got there. Why are people so stupid? Frustrates me to no end.

Thanx for putting the link up z

Enjoy Every Sandwich
Nothing In Moderation  -- Live Fast. Love Hard. Die Young And Leave A Beautiful Corpse. -- Buy It Today. Cry About It Tomorrow.

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

I am firmly convinced that the only appropriate punishment for property crimes is for the judge to sentence you to an ass kicking.   The amount of time getting beat on should be commensurate with the crime.  This keeps the jail clean for really dangerous people, and places a genuine deterrent in place for future crimes.

For example, that looks like an LP.   This sentence should be "Bailiff, take the convicted out back and kick his ass for 35 minutes."

Someday we'll win this thing...

[url=http://www.aclosesecond.com]www.aclosesecond.com[/url]

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

LOL Jerome.  By George, I think you've got it.

You can see all my video covers on [url]http://www.youtube.com/bensonp1000[/url]
I have finally found happiness in my life.  Guitars, singing, beer and camping.  And they all intertwine wonderfully.

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

^Ditto on above positive answers.^

my papy said son your going too drive me too drinking if you dont stop driving that   Hot  Rod  Lincoln!! Cmdr cody and his lost planet airman

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

zguitar wrote:

I would have beat that guy until the cops got there. Why are people so stupid? Frustrates me to no end.

Z, I'm not sure who you mean is the stupid one:  the guy who stole the guitar or the guy who owned the guitar for not "beating the guy until the cops got there".  I'll assume you meant the former.

Regardless, with respect, I don't think anybody in the guitar owner's situation would have tried to beat the guy due to a small snippet of info in the article which is easy to overlook:

". . . the wannabe buyer put his hand in his waistband . . . "

The robber was signaling that he had a gun.  Whether he did or was just bluffing, NO piece of property that you own is worth losing your life over.  Even if it is a really cool guitar.

Conversely, let's say the guitar owner was also carrying a gun.  In certain locales he may have been within his legal right to shoot the robber in the back as he was running away.

However, I wouldn't do that either.  As much as I might want to, no piece of property that I own is worth TAKING a life over.

Full disclosure:  I'm conservative, and I am licensed to carry.

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." - Despair, Inc.

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

Astronomikal wrote:
zguitar wrote:

I would have beat that guy until the cops got there. Why are people so stupid? Frustrates me to no end.

The robber was signaling that he had a gun.  Whether he did or was just bluffing, NO piece of property that you own is worth losing your life over.  Even if it is a really cool guitar.

This should be repeated to thieves, not victims.   Texas allows deadly force to protect property.  I'm all in favor of that.  If every degenerate thief thought "That guy's stuff isn't worth getting killed over" there would be a lot fewer degenerate thieves in the world.

Someday we'll win this thing...

[url=http://www.aclosesecond.com]www.aclosesecond.com[/url]

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

jerome.oneil wrote:
Astronomikal wrote:
zguitar wrote:

I would have beat that guy until the cops got there. Why are people so stupid? Frustrates me to no end.

The robber was signaling that he had a gun.  Whether he did or was just bluffing, NO piece of property that you own is worth losing your life over.  Even if it is a really cool guitar.

This should be repeated to thieves, not victims.   Texas allows deadly force to protect property.  I'm all in favor of that.  If every degenerate thief thought "That guy's stuff isn't worth getting killed over" there would be a lot fewer degenerate thieves in the world.

God Bless Texas,I love the laws there!!

my papy said son your going too drive me too drinking if you dont stop driving that   Hot  Rod  Lincoln!! Cmdr cody and his lost planet airman

11 (edited by Astronomikal 2012-07-19 01:10:14)

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

Jerome:  I hear you.  No argument whatsoever.  Unfortunately our justice system and the media seem to find ways to justify/excuse the crime and "tolerate" the criminal while villifying or blaming the victim.  So if someone does decide to carry a gun for protection and God forbid has to make the decision to draw it and use it, they need to be prepared for everything that will follow.

My favorite "property protection" example is the case of Joe Horn.  This happened here in the great state of Texas, about 45 minutes from my house.  Interesting read if you have the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_s … ontroversy

My point is that even if you are cleared of criminal wrongdoing, your life will NEVER be the same.  I'll bet Joe wishes he had made some different decisions that day.

EDIT:
But here's an example of the opposite extreme.  As bad as we think some of the laws regarding "rights" are in the US, things could be worse:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)>

I can't get the link to paste right, so just copy and paste it into your browser.
.

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." - Despair, Inc.

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

Astro I fallowed that in the news,it was a very interesting case. If you did that in california you most likely would be in prison.

my papy said son your going too drive me too drinking if you dont stop driving that   Hot  Rod  Lincoln!! Cmdr cody and his lost planet airman

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

dino48 wrote:

Astro I fallowed that in the news,it was a very interesting case. If you did that in california you most likely would be in prison.

If you pulled a Joe Horn in California, you're right.  But if you shot people who were INSIDE your house trying to steal from you, you'd probably be OK, even in California.

Unfortunately for Tony Martin (second URL in my previous post), UK laws favor the criminal in a case like that.  If you want to shake your head in disbelief, read that article.

Thank God for the second amendment.

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." - Despair, Inc.

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

Astronomikal wrote:

Unfortunately for Tony Martin (second URL in my previous post), UK laws favor the criminal in a case like that.  If you want to shake your head in disbelief, read that article.

Thank God for the second amendment.

I'm definitely shaking my head in disbelief. After being robbed 10 times I'd be a little trigger happy too. And the robber wants to get paid? How in the world does something that stupid even get filed? WOW......

Keep Rockin!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

My wife is Irish.  I'm familiar with the Tony Martin case.   

I've been educating her on castle doctrine since she got here.    She's gone from not wanting a gun in the house (and being uncomfortable with mine) to looking for a biometric gun safe for the future Kel-Tek KSG we're going to put in it.   What really did it was getting her to understand that in the US, the police have absolutely no duty to protect you from anything.    Fortunately, she's the daughter of a cop, so these kinds of things don't take a whole lot of convincing.  Eventually it makes sense even to those with no context.

Another key difference between the two systems isn't just duty to retreat, it's the jury system.  In America, juries must be unanimous for criminal conviction.   Not so in the UK.   Murder can be found by a jury with a 10-2 vote, which was the case in the Martin trial, so at least two people thought he was justified.

Someday we'll win this thing...

[url=http://www.aclosesecond.com]www.aclosesecond.com[/url]

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

Good grief. Put things in perspective . Life is too short to get "so uptight" over something like this.

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

My original point was that I think the thief should be shot.Not just that thief,but anyone who does that to anyone for any reason. Not just a guitar. Since this is a guitar forum, The link is relevant. Also that anyone that plays has more respect for an instrument than to treat one badly like two teenage boys did at a flea market. I also do take offense (almost personally) when things like that happen. And I am not going to take back or apologize for my original post. One question, Have you ever had anything you worked hard for stolen? Have you ever taken any punches for a few dollars that you had on you? Answer that, then put things in perspective. P.S.  I have

Enjoy Every Sandwich
Nothing In Moderation  -- Live Fast. Love Hard. Die Young And Leave A Beautiful Corpse. -- Buy It Today. Cry About It Tomorrow.

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

Jerome - I think your statement, "Police have absolutely no duty to protect you from anything" is so sad yet true.  Even most American born citizens don't understand that one until after they've had the chance to test it.  So sad, but so true.  Police are not there to protect anyone, they are only there to catch presumed bad guys AFTER they presumably done something bad.  And then, the crime has to be "bad enough" for them to bother. 

Some one came into our garage and RIPPED the battery out of our lawn tractor, stole a battery for a welder, and a cordless drill.  The police said, "Were the doors open?"  What's it matter?  They came on MY property and stole MY property!  Apparently, if your property is easily accessable to thieves, and they didn't steal over $500 worth, the police really don't care.  Yet, if my husband had caught them and beaten them to a pulp or shot them he'd probably be in jail.  Worst part, we know who PROBABLY took it.  The police said they'd go "talk" to those guys.  All that will do is MAYBE scare them from doing it again.  They won't bother trying to recover anything.  I once witnessed someone stealing from my neighbor, knew who it was and took a picture. The police TRIED to contact him but that was the extent of it.  Again, less than $500 worth of property was stolen. 

Moral of the story, even if you have proof who the bad guys are, the police won't do anything unless it's a "horrible enough" crime.  There is no protection, and the police take the justice system into their own hands deciding what's worth their time and what isn't.  Apparently free coffee at the local gas station is far more important. 

Sigh... my son wants to be an officer.

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

When I got beat and robbed.I didn`t even report it. It wasn`t even 20.00 and I did not even want to see the guys ever again. I knew who stole from me also, but couldn`t prove it. Toolbox, battery to a boat I had. Garage jack. Still I didnt report it.Just kept things locked up.(IN MY OWN CELLAR). Another time, found my car window smashed and all my casettes stolen and the car ransacked.  Ask me why the guy who stole the guitar should be shot.

Enjoy Every Sandwich
Nothing In Moderation  -- Live Fast. Love Hard. Die Young And Leave A Beautiful Corpse. -- Buy It Today. Cry About It Tomorrow.

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

I had a car stolen from my driveway,the police found it a few hours later.I had too go get it and I asked if they had fingerprints or anything else.they said it was only used for a joyride!!!!. I could not belive it!!

my papy said son your going too drive me too drinking if you dont stop driving that   Hot  Rod  Lincoln!! Cmdr cody and his lost planet airman

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

Funny dino. I had a car stolen in 2005. The police caught the 2 kids at 1am parked in it the next street over. The worcester police called me at 1am asking if I knew where the car was. It was stolen from the shop where it was being fixed. All I could figure is that they were trying to figure out how to put the top down.Or they were incredibly stupid or both. One street away. If you stole a car, wouldnt take it far away before stopping on the side of the road for any reason?

Enjoy Every Sandwich
Nothing In Moderation  -- Live Fast. Love Hard. Die Young And Leave A Beautiful Corpse. -- Buy It Today. Cry About It Tomorrow.

22 (edited by jerome.oneil 2012-07-21 09:27:42)

Re: Here is a guy that should be shot. You don`t do this to others.

mekidsmom wrote:

Moral of the story, even if you have proof who the bad guys are, the police won't do anything unless it's a "horrible enough" crime.  There is no protection, and the police take the justice system into their own hands deciding what's worth their time and what isn't.  Apparently free coffee at the local gas station is far more important. 

Sigh... my son wants to be an officer.

Here's a happy story that will make you feel better.

About three years ago I had some co-workers from Ireland come over to the states and they wanted to go hiking up on Mt. Rainier.   I took them to one of the remote entrances and we spent the day biking and hiking up to one of the glaciers.  When we got back, there was a cop in the parking lot with his notebook out.   When he asked if this was my vehicle I thought he was writing me a parking ticket or something.  But he wasn't.  He told me my car had been broken into.  Being a smart feller, I figured that leaving my wallet in my car at a remote entrance would be better than taking it up and losing it on the glacier.   I guessed wrong.   Wallet was gone, window was smashed, and I was miles away from civilization with no cell coverage to call my bank.  There was a ranger station right there at the parking lot, too, so the first thing I said to the cop was "Where was the Ranger?" 

He says "I'm the Ranger."  And sure enough, he was.  Then I put  my foot in my mouth just a bit deeper, because that's how I roll.

"When did they start arming you guys?"  because he had a side arm and a tazer, hence my confusion about the cop vs Ranger thing.

"In 1872 when they formed the Park Service."  OK, so I feel extra dumb now. 

I'm expecting the standard "File a report and call your insurance company and bank" response, but then this kid does something completely unexpected.  He walks to his truck, pulls out a crime scene kit, and starts dusting my car for prints.  He took pictures and took fiber samples.  I was amazed.  There was a small group of people in the lot that were watching this, and they were all amazed as well.  It was quite a spectacle.

The criminals that did it ran to the nearest Home Depot and spent about $500 on tools.  The Ranger called the next day and asked if I'd send him my bank details so "he wouldn't have to issue a subpoena for them, and that takes time."  No problem, happy to help!  And I was.  I was so happy I wrote a letter to the head of the Parks Department bragging on his guys and thanking them for at least giving a crap enough to try.  I actually said, and I quote, "He did a very thorough investigation, including dusting my car for prints, fiber samples, and other things that left me with the distinct impression that he actually cared about what had happened.  That alone did much to make me feel better about a bad situation.  I don't have any faith that we'll ever catch the clowns that broke into those cars, but it's nice to know that your man is at least trying."   We will come back to that.

So Ranger Dan (his last name is Dutch and unpronounceable) calls me about a month later, long after I'd forgotten about all this.  He had gone to the Home Depot, took their surveillance tapes into custody, worked with the local PD who helped ID the people, and did all that crime investigation that we all hope cops will do but they never seem to.   He says "Well, we have one guy in custody and are about to execute a warrant on the other.  I need to known we have the right address for you so we can send you the right court docs."  To say I was gobsmacked would be an understatement.   I couldn't believe it.  I had to write another letter to the Director of the Parks Service and correct myself. 

Now that's not even the good part.  smile  The good part is this.  Because the the crime to place in a National Park, it is under federal jurisdiction.  That means it is prosecuted under federal laws in federal courts.  Two years went by and I got a letter from them saying that the following two people had been charged with various crimes including identity theft and using a false passkey (my ATM card), which carries a mandatory minimum two years in the poke.  One had plead guilty and the other not guilty, so he was going to trial.   I was so happy!   I got a subpoena to testify against the guy that didn't plead out, and just before I was supposed to go to court, got another letter that said he's plead guilty and is doing his two years, too.

So sometimes the stars line up and things work out.  Tell your son to be a federal cop. If he wants to be an awesome cop, tell him to be a National Park Ranger.  I love those guys.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/waw/press/2 … liams.html

Someday we'll win this thing...

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