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Guitar chord forum - chordie → Chordie's Chat Corner → Gibson Raided by the DoJ
Issue regarding "endangered woods". Sounds like they're being hassled by da man . . .
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 … 23268.html
That's ridiculous!!! I understand the whole thing about endangered woods and that's all legit. But getting busted for having a guitar made of it is just stupid. I mean how can you really know where your wood comes from. As consumers we are at least 4th in a line that starts with the harvester. How can we be expected to know anything. Government sucks!!!!
Maybe Martin and Gibson should start planting their own trees.
The sad thing is that the illegality of the wood has nothing to do with the actual wood, but by who did the finishing on the wood. Apparently this wood was finished by American workers, rather than Indian workers when it was harvested. Had the finishing been done in India, the wood would be deemed "legal" by the DoJ.
In this case, the government sucks twice.
Who finishes wood has nothing whatsoever to do with whether it is sustainable. Ridiculous. The government sometimes really loses track of the purpose of legislation when they prepare regulation for enforcement. They try to figure out how to "get at" something rather than just handle it straight on. It leads to goofy results like this.
- Zurf
Found this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_-taqM5 … r_embedded
Gibson press conference about the raid. You can tell that this guy is bent and baffled by what happened. Props to him, I totally understood everything he was saying.
Actually, Jerome, the government sucks more than twice these days.
Who finishes wood has nothing whatsoever to do with whether it is sustainable. Ridiculous. The government sometimes really loses track of the purpose of legislation when they prepare regulation for enforcement. They try to figure out how to "get at" something rather than just handle it straight on. It leads to goofy results like this.
- Zurf
And to make it suck three times (right on Peter!) it appears that this wouldn't even be a violation of American law, but of Indian law. But the Indian government didn't even ask for an investigation.
It would be reasonable if India said "Hey America, one of your companies is importing wood from us illegally, and we'd like the wood back, as it's part of a criminal investigation." But this is just someone at the DoJ interpreting it for them. Probably owns stock in Fender.
I will fourth that our government sucks!
When it comes to government and politics, the whole world sucks!
Zurf wrote:Who finishes wood has nothing whatsoever to do with whether it is sustainable. Ridiculous. The government sometimes really loses track of the purpose of legislation when they prepare regulation for enforcement. They try to figure out how to "get at" something rather than just handle it straight on. It leads to goofy results like this.
- Zurf
And to make it suck three times (right on Peter!) it appears that this wouldn't even be a violation of American law, but of Indian law. But the Indian government didn't even ask for an investigation.
It would be reasonable if India said "Hey America, one of your companies is importing wood from us illegally, and we'd like the wood back, as it's part of a criminal investigation." But this is just someone at the DoJ interpreting it for them. Probably owns stock in Fender.
That's out of line. Let India enforce Indian law. I agree. If India had requested assistance through proper channels, it's appropriate for our government to lend a hand. We'd expect the same from them. But to go around doing it gratuitously must mean that DOJ has too little to do handling US interests. It may be time for some budget cuts if they're so hard-pressed for work that they've taken it upon themselves to enforce other nation's laws.
- Zurf
I am sure the only budget cuts we will see in the future will come from our wallets.
Hi all, been awhile. Wow! What a story. Thanks Astro. Cannot for the life of me under-
stand what is going on in this country. No due process? No charges? Enter-seize-
threaten-etc. Casts shadows of a certain German nutcase. Lumber unions pissed cuz
they haven't been getting the "middle man" money? Maybe Gibson just makes too
much money so let's redistribute their wealth, says big brother, after all, how much
do they really need?
Seems to me the larger the government, the bigger the brother. Hopefully this issue
will be resolved and so as it's been awhile I hope all is well, especially you guys on
the east coast. Mike
Don't know if you watched the press vid but the guy said 2 things that put me over the top on how stupid this is.
1. They were never told that they were doing something wrong. No phone calls, e-mails, or letters saying they need to correct their problem.
2. There was no affidavit with the search warrant stating why they were raided. A judge signed this warrant with no probable cause.
I just don't understand how these things could happen. It's not like they are dealing drugs or weapons. The make instruments for crying out loud.
Very true Z. Is this the USof A or what are we becoming? There is possibly the
thought that Gibson is not being upfront about something but I highly doubt
that.
I deal with government auditors on a regular basis as part of my job. Of the ones I have had direct contact with, they've all been of a mind to try to get contractors like ourselves compliant with regulations IF they see good intent. Of course, when they're dealing with me I obviously demonstrate good intent. I wouldn't work for a company that didn't have it. That said, when it comes to law enforcement, it seems like it's a whole different kettle of fish. The idea there is raid, threaten, take a cut, "settle", let the business go back to going about their business. It's disgusting that good, honest, hard-working, well-intentioned people such as we have in law enforcement in this country are being abused by their superiors who send them out to act like mob henchmen shaking down a new business on their turf seeking "protection money". Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting.
- Zurf
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