• From: Renfrewshire, Scotland
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 1,359

Topic: Tuning oddity

I've noticed that when I'm tuning my guitar, when it is in tune with itself, i.e. all the strings are in tune relative to each other, that when I try it against a tuner the first 3 strings(E, B, G) are slightly out in relation to the tuner. When I amend this it definitely doesn't sound right. I'm starting to think that my guitar is a bit dodgy(it is a Fender Gemini II about 15 years old or more). Could anyone tell me if my suspisions are correct or is there something else going on.

Very frustrating.

Is anything really made up of zeros and ones??

alvee33's Website

  • Registered: 2006-05-28
  • Posts: 8

Re: Tuning oddity

You need to have your intonation set correctly.  You've probably recenly changed string gauge (gone heavier or lighter) and now, even though you may be able to get a relative tune, you'll never reach true tune.  No real problem when you play by  yourself, but when you play along with CDs, or with a band, you'll want to have that fixed. 


Intonation is correct when the 12th fret harmonic note matches the 12th fret fretted note on all 6 strings.  If your note is too low, you have to tighten, if it's too high you have to loosen. It works better if you loosen the string before making bridge adjustments and then tightening back up to check your result. Set intonation with fresh strings for the best result, and make sure (especially with Fenders) to have several spare strings because you will be breaking strings in the process.  If you haven't done it before, it can be a frustrating process and it's well worth the $20 or $30 dollars to have a professional do your setup... they'll set your action, fix your intonation woes, oil your neck and lube your nut in the process and you'll have a guitar ready to go into a recording session when they get done. 


Good luck!

  • From: Renfrewshire, Scotland
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 1,359

Re: Tuning oddity

Thanks jedi. I had a funny feeling it was something to do with this although coudn't have told you what it was called. I did change strings fairly recently but since it was after not touching the instrument for nearly 10 years I couldn't remember what gauge was on it. Not experienced enough to tell by look or feel <img src="images/smiley_icons/icon_confused.gif" border=0 alt="Confused"> . The problem is though, that the bridge looks like a pretty straight affair and although I know it does move when loose, how do I set it to where I want it; it just kinda fell into it's own position.

I guess this makes me sound like a total numpty.

Is anything really made up of zeros and ones??

alvee33's Website

  • From: Renfrewshire, Scotland
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 1,359

Re: Tuning oddity

Thanks again man. After a LOT of messing about things are a lot better. If I could I'd buy you a drink. Cheers!

Is anything really made up of zeros and ones??

alvee33's Website

  • upyerkilt
  • upyerkilt
  • Unofficial king of Scotland
  • Offline
  • From: Balloch, Scotland, UK, Earth
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 3,290

Re: Tuning oddity

flippell alvee,


I bet that took ages to correct?

I have bee nplaying the guitar for about 14 years or so and  inever knew this about the intonation thingy.


I had a guitar in the past that was a gibson, a boomin good one too but I had this same problem so I sold it cheap.

i just thought a duff guitar and ran its course of life.


Now I know for the next time it happens but I think I will hand it in to a shop to do. If I lose my patience wit hit I might throw it out the sondow,lol


Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending
  • From: Renfrewshire, Scotland
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 1,359

Re: Tuning oddity

Ken, I was starting to feel the same. Was getting ready to stick the blasted thing on eBay. In the back of my mind I must've heard of this cos i had a funny feeling something technical was going down. Bloody Nora what a footer. Got there in the end though, thanks to chickenjedi.

Use the force..............

Is anything really made up of zeros and ones??

alvee33's Website

  • Registered: 2006-05-28
  • Posts: 8

Re: Tuning oddity

It's alot more common for the intonation on electric guitars to go out, but it can happen on acoustics.  For the most part, acoustics are pretty much set in stone, but if the bridge is loose or if the saddle tips forward or back when  you change strings (I always make sure to put some light direct pressure on the saddle when I change strings to prevent this), if the neck is not quite as set as it should be (like when your cat touches the guitar and it falls down), if you change string gauges, or if the humidity goes wonky (like it does down here in South Florida every year) your intonation can go out.  Glad you were able to fix your problem... now, about that drink : )

  • From: Renfrewshire, Scotland
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 1,359

Re: Tuning oddity

<img src="images/smiley_icons/icon_lol.gif" border=0 alt="Laughing">

Next time you're in Scotland I'll buy you a whisky or two.

Is anything really made up of zeros and ones??

alvee33's Website

  • Whammo
  • Junior Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2006-07-21
  • Posts: 3

Re: Tuning oddity

I'm guessing this is not a problem with your guitar. Nearly all tuners are adjusted to "tempered" tuning. The method was invented in the time of Bach and is a means of tuning each note in the scale slightly "out of tune" in order to make it possible to play in all 12 keys without having to retune.


Tuning using the 5th fret or harmonics tunes to "Just tuning", or true acoustic tuning. If your guitar is in tune with itself when you play, use your tuner for the E's, then use your ears for the rest. You're doing fine.


IF you are playing some distant modulations, like from A to G# and you notice the chords are slightly out of tune, it's natural for this to occur. (Listen to some of the recordings of the Preservation Hall Jazz band and you'll hear some pretty sour sounding Major 7th chords, but it's natural for this to occur).


Does anyone know if guitars are fretted to tune to tempered or true tuning?

  • From: UK
  • Registered: 2006-05-16
  • Posts: 10

Re: Tuning oddity

Chickenjedi, you've answered my question too.  My guitar was displaying the exact symptoms you'd described, relatively tuned at the 5th sounded fine, as soon as I held a chord it was like Les Dawson took a hold. It sounded terrible.  So do I simply listen to how the note sounds in order to get it right at the 12th?  Or is there a note I am looking for and will my electronic tuner be of use?

Thanks.

P.S. For those who have never seen Les Dawson, try here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZh8LJOy4xI

Be light unto thyself.
  • From: Sweden
  • Registered: 2007-01-09
  • Posts: 85

Re: Tuning oddity

Not an answer to your question, but a cool instrument.

My friend found a guitar on his grandmothers attic. He went to a musician that now restores old furniture and musical instruments. He discovered that it's made around 1910 and of a unusual model.

The problem with a standard guitar is that it's not completely in tune on the whole neck, but this instrument was specialy made to cope with this. The metal bands on the neck are more and more angled the closer you get to the body of the guitar (to correct that thick and thin strings tone chages are not equal when you move along the length of the string).

It looked a bit freaky and twisted but according to the restoration guy it was working exactly as supposed, and much better "whole neck" tuned than standard guitars.

/Missen

If you love what you do, there's no need to be good at it...