Topic: I have some problems with no idea how to try and fix them...

HI all

ive been learning guitar for a few months now, my chord changes are very good-in general!-and i know a few songs.

My biggest problem is that i dont know when to come in if i was trying to sing along and i struggle with my rhythm and strumming pattern if i do get the timing right!

Also, I havnt the slightest clue-if i was writing a song- as to what chord to play and why a specific chord is used

I would like to start writing songs but i have no idea how to get over these problems.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Regards, Nathan

"just keep strumming, just keep strumming, just keep strumming, strummming, strummming"

Re: I have some problems with no idea how to try and fix them...

To be able to sing a song and play it you must be able to play it without thinking about it first. Once you have the rhythm and strumming down then add the singing. If you have to think about chords, strumming, and lyrics all at once you will never get it.

Keep at it and you'll get it down.

Keep Rockin!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: I have some problems with no idea how to try and fix them...

mcclatch,
me too!. I can't even spell rhythm. Well, actually I can using spell-check. But playing is hard enough for me. Singing?
dj

Re: I have some problems with no idea how to try and fix them...

People write music in different ways. Some write the lyrics first, then figure out a melody and some do just the opposite.  If you write the words first, then try to sing them as you think would sound good.  Then, as you hum or sing you then come up with the chords that sound good with the notes.  I know this may sound confusing, but is is the best I can do.

You can see all my video covers on [url]http://www.youtube.com/bensonp1000[/url]
I have finally found happiness in my life.  Guitars, singing, beer and camping.  And they all intertwine wonderfully.

5 (edited by HannahBeth 2011-07-13 23:45:36)

Re: I have some problems with no idea how to try and fix them...

You need to learn how to understand song structure/pattern. The order of the chords/pattern of a song is called the "Chord Progression". When you strum chords on a guitar, you're playing songs at its basic level: the chord progression. All songs are played in a specific key (playing "in" F, in G, in C etc.). For each key there are three basic chords (really more but just for starters we'll focus on three) that you can play together.

There's a "starter" chord, the one you'll usually begin and end on. I call it the "first" chord or 1 : the corresponding chord for a key (If you're playing in C, then the first chord is C)

A second chord (2). Each key has a specific correct second chord. In C its F. There's charts and stuff to help you remember, and over time you'll memorize which chords are for which key

A third chord (3) is usually the one you go towards the end of musical phrase, just before ending on the 1 chord. In the key of C this chord is G.

So a pretty common chord progression would be something like,

"1.2.1.3.1"

or

"C.F.C.G.C"

Of course there are always ways to switch things up and those three chords can play different roles in different orders, the important thing is that for each key there's three main chords that "go" together. Here's a few keys just for reference....

In key of G: 1=G
                   2=C
                   3= d

In key of C: 1=C
                   2=F
                   3=G

In key of F: 1= F
                  2=Bflat
                  3=C

Try looking up "nashville numbers", its a common system. I think the chords are labelled with different numbers but its the same concept. There's probably even a thread somewhere on Chordie about it.
Once you begin to understand the pattern of music, you'll start to recognize it in songs and it'll make it much easier to pick up on new tunes. You'd be surprised how many songs, when stripped down to their most basic level have super similar chord progressions. When you recognize a chord progression, you won't have to work as hard to memorize what chords go in what order! You'll be able to look and see that you're playing in a key, know what 3 chords are probably going to be there, and even what order they're most likely to fall in.
Best of luck!

All You Need is Love smile

6 (edited by NELA 2011-07-14 00:42:54)

Re: I have some problems with no idea how to try and fix them...

Ms HannahBeth is correct in everything except for the way of numbering the chords in a progression. HannahBeth - I'm not trying to step on your toes so please don't think I am.

The notes / chords are (Key of C) C - C#/Db - D - D#/Eb - E - F - F#/Gb = G - G#/Ab - A - A#/Bb - B & back to C.
Numbers are -                             1                 2                3   4                 5                6                7                1
Key of C progression would be C - F - G or a 1 - 4 - 5

Between 1 & 2 is a whole step. The 2 would be a minor chord or DM
Between 2 & 3 is a whole step. The 3 would be a minor chord or Em
Between 3 & 4 is a half step. The 4 is a major chord or F
Between 4 and 5 is a whole step. The 5 would be a major chord or G
Between 5 and 6 is a whole step. The 6 would be a minor chord or Am
Between 6 and 7 is a whole step. The 7 would be a diminished chord or Ddim
From the 7 is a half step back to the Key chord and everything repeats from here.

The WS - WS -WH - hs - WS - WS - WS - hs    works for any progression. If you are looking at a song using the Nashville Numbering System the progression would be written out as 1 - 4 - 5 for the major chords. A 2 - 3 or 6 would be a minor chord and a 7 would be a dimished chord.     

Anyway this can get confusing but  it gets easier with time.



HannahBeth in a world of Little Wings you will always be a Last_Rebel to me.


Nela

Re: I have some problems with no idea how to try and fix them...

NELA wrote:

Ms HannahBeth is correct in everything except for the way of numbering the chords in a progression. HannahBeth - I'm not trying to step on your toes so please don't think I am.

No offence taken! I know I learned to play in wonky ways smile This is the best way I knew how to explain it, I'm glad you knew the correct numbering.
  I'm glad to be back and touched that so many people remember me!

All You Need is Love smile

Re: I have some problems with no idea how to try and fix them...

Get a metronome and drive your timing. The lyrics will begin to fall in as you play and sing using the click

Re: I have some problems with no idea how to try and fix them...

I always find that singing and playing at the same time takes practice because every song is different. I like to listen to the song over and over before I start trying to play it.

"Where you begin doesn't matter. Your willingness to start is what counts."
Without music life would be a mistake.
Country music is three chords and the truth.
cool cool cool cool cool cool

Re: I have some problems with no idea how to try and fix them...

Hi there

Everyone that posted a reply to you has given you some very helpful tips.  My advice to you is to subscribe to JamPlay.  It was only thru this course that I learned all that what everyone here is trying to say to you.  This course taught me how to overcome the exact questions that you are asking and much, much, much more.

Some of the tips explained here, as a beginner own your own, you will find it difficult to relate to.  Subscribe to JamPlay and open your eyes and start playing "your songs."

Re: I have some problems with no idea how to try and fix them...

That's fantastic advice guys. I'll try put it into practice today.. I'm beginning to love this forum!

"just keep strumming, just keep strumming, just keep strumming, strummming, strummming"

Re: I have some problems with no idea how to try and fix them...

hi mcclatch,

when my mate and i started playing way back in the 60's, we would learn a chord and strum a rhythm and just make words up around the chord (something like hawkwind did!!!!) soon we found that our tunes needed another chord, so we just hit every chord we new until we found one that was close enough (just like hot chocolate ((the group...you sexy thing?)) soon we were doing a status quo with 3 chords. it's just progress, you will progress it's a matter of practise, dedication, being inquisitive and just trying it. keep trying.

phill

Ask not what Chordie can do for you, but what you can do for Chordie.

Re: I have some problems with no idea how to try and fix them...

the first song I learned how to play and sing was "a horse with no name " by America. 2 chords , simple pattern. after that it becomes easier and gets easier with every song.
Em                       D
dudududu             duuu

Re: I have some problems with no idea how to try and fix them...

The song is just a melody, like Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star.  You the singer should pick what key you play/sing in - what note you sing it on, to start.  A chord has other notes that harmonize with the melody notes...according to the key you sing in, you would pick chords for that key.  Oh, the fun!

Live to play, play to live!

Re: I have some problems with no idea how to try and fix them...

mcclatch wrote:

My biggest problem is that i dont know when to come in if i was trying to sing along and i struggle with my rhythm and strumming pattern if i do get the timing right!

Also, I havnt the slightest clue-if i was writing a song- as to what chord to play and why a specific chord is used

I would like to start writing songs but i have no idea how to get over these problems.

You sound like a guitar player all right.  All of those problems are extremely common among us.  For when to come in... practice.  For how to know which chord to use after which, basic theory.  Theory can get extremely complicated, but basic theory can get you started.  Keep an eye on the Music Theory forum here on Chordie, and if you don't understand something either (a) do a search on that term as it has probably been discussed before, (b) ask because Jerome and Russell are fantastic at bringing the complex down to the working guitarists level, or (c) both.  Please understand that you are unlikely to understand theory just by reading it.  You have to put in your time with scales and arpeggios (chords played one note at a time in order) and inversions (chords playing one note at a time out of order).  As you put in your time on those, and keep up with the reading, you'll begin to internalize it.  It takes time.  It's not a one afternoon fix. 

As far as writing songs and not knowing how to do it, I have no advice for that.  I'm in the same boat.  I've got some good hooks and concepts in my head, but I have a difficult time getting it down on paper and especially difficult time working out a melody on the guitar.  Just keep at it and wait for the Eureka! moment. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: I have some problems with no idea how to try and fix them...

Also, take chord changes out of the equation........just play the first chord and sing that part over and over until you memorize it, then second chord....I call it "chunkifying."  smile

-joe

Re: I have some problems with no idea how to try and fix them...

Baldguitardude wrote:

Also, take chord changes out of the equation........just play the first chord and sing that part over and over until you memorize it, then second chord....I call it "chunkifying."  smile

-joe

So you're saying if we can't get funky, that we should first get chunky? 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: I have some problems with no idea how to try and fix them...

LOL. I'm already chunky.