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Guitar chord forum - chordie → Chordie's Chat Corner → Would you vote for Him?
This is the closest thing I've heard to a straight shooting Politician so long as his numbers are correct, not that I can prove them either way, but plz give this guy a listen, it's worth it I promise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq1zpHF0J04
Cam
Go Bernie!!! Tell it like it is.
Amen.
Bernie Sanders is phenomenal, and I'd vote for him in a heartbeat.
Nope.
The sad thing is even tho he speaks the truth nothing will change which brings to mind the quote "I have met the enemy and it is me" and not until our leaders put the welfare of its people and the survival of this nation first it will be business as usual and like the Roman empire America will fall from within and sadly the truth is the people deserve the government they allow.
.. people deserve the government they allow.
You make a good point Russ. Everyone gets in an uproar about a certain thing but the end result is that it doesn't change. If there are so many people against the tax cuts for the wealthy then why can't we make the change happen? This is a democracy and majority rules right? Can't wrap my head around how this continues to happen.
The government we allow, and have been for God knows how long, always stand on fixing the same issues. Every election we hear about healthcare, the national debt, etc... In 4 or 8 years nothing gets fixed. That's a long time to get nothing done. Even if steps in the right direction were being made, that would at least be something. I guess things like these are why I stay out of politics and don't vote.
So I wouldn't vote for Bernie even tho he sounds great.
I'd rather watch the royal wedding:(
Sigh...
This is something that has been stuck in my craw for some time but, as zguitar said, no one cares anymore.
I belong to a public union-I am a firefighter. I work for a department that pays less than every department but one in my county and is one of the lowest paid in my region. We always had good benefits though. Are they what you all are hearing about? LOL I wish. When I retire, if the state does not screw me, I will be able to survive. That is all.
This attack on the middle class started years ago and gained steam when the good ole USA passed the law to allow unlimited corporate contributions to political parties/causes. This was done in response to the union's abilities to donate to political candidates they felt would HELP THE WORKING CLASS!
Listen closely to the complaints of the politicians (republicans in particular) once they get beyond the cost of our "Cadillac" benefits and you will hear: "The Unions have way too much political power!"
Really. And just what do the corporations have now? The ability to buy elections and political agendas.
Here's the scoop: 40 years ago Corporate America paid 25% of all taxes in the country. Back then most companies had pension programs for their employees. Now Corporate America pays about 8% of all taxes and not one has a pension plan. Why? Pension plans cut into profit. Where does the profit go? Not to the employees but to shareholders.
Any of you long-term employees see your bennies shrink over the years? Why? Cost cutting? From 1992-2008 why? That time saw the LARGEST INCREASE OF OUR ECONOMY IN HISTORY! But everyone's benefits suffered.
Where did the money go? To shareholders and the Corporate white-shirts. Especially in bonuses. Anyone remember when AT&T laid off 16,000 employees back in 1992 or 1993? The CEO of AT&T received a 16 MILLION DOLLAR BONUS after that.
Really...
Economy sucks now right? Not for Corporate America. Most major corporations are showing record profits right about now. You seeing it in your pocket? How many of you have tried to get a re-fi on your house through a bank that was saved by or received TARP funds? 20% down and an almost perfect credit rating. Remember the TARP funds were supposed to go to those who needed relief so they could afford to pay/ stay in their houses. Not working too well for people. Those Mortgage lending houses that made, and lost, billions of dollars in the housing market? Record bonuses to big-wigs in the name of "retention". After they recieved TARP funds to stay in business because they were "too Big To Fail".
Really...
Think about Sanders' statements at the start of this speech. Simple translation: Corporate America wants to eliminate the Middle Class.
That's right, eliminate. They do not want a political entity, and that is what the middle class is, to upset their apple cart.
I am not a Democrat. I do not support most of what they espouse. In my line of work I see what "social" programs have done to many people. It has made them feel that they are entitled to what we pay in taxes. I am not a Republican as I see a political party that is the lapdog to profits and ROI. They could care less what you or I want or need form our country. Both parties now cater to limited "clientele". Dems cater to those who want but are unwilling to work for it and Reps cater to those who have and want ours too.
Perhaps many of you are anti-union. I used to be after a union tried to ruin my family company. I had to join when I became a firefighter but I am glad I did now. We are all hearing about how Unions are ruining our economy by our "Greed". Remember this: Unions gave us the five day work week, paid vacation, pensions, 40 hour work week, time and one half overtime, medical insurance through our employers, safeguards from wrongful termination and many, many more "benefits" we enjoy today.
My prediction? Corporate America wishes to do away with unions and slowly erode our rights as workers. We used to have that type of work climate at the turn of the 20th century when many Corporate leaders were known as "Robber Barons'. It has already started by the downsizing of the workforce. This has had a direct result of record profits and one worker doing the work of many people. The profits DO NOT MEAN MORE JOBS. It means stockholders and corporations share more money.
This is a test of whether or not our country will return to the way it was in the late1800's-early 1900's or if the middle class will get so pissed that Unions will become stronger just to protect the jobs of many of us.
I agree that everyone has to make sacrifices in this time. I have and I will gladly to make ends meet for every body in my department. I don't defend those who have and are tooling the system. It make me and the majority of public union members look bad. But I am tired of hearing how the Unions have ruined this country. We have not. Corporate America and the politicians who know no better than how to get re-elected have done so on the backs of everyone who relies on them for competent leadership.
Sorry about the rant....Stepping off the soapbox.
PS: If I pissed anyone off...think about it before you rebut me...That is all it takes.
I think you make some good points Bunbun, but I disagree with some of what you say too. When you talk about money going to shareholders, bear in mind that's a lot of us. As you say, most pension plans have gone the way of the dodo bird. So we try our best with 401(k) savings. What do the 401(k) plans do, they buy stocks. Shares. We're the shareholders. The thing is, while we're the shareholders, we haven't got enough shares to make a difference. So the guys who run the funds vote our shares as proxies. Same thing as unions, right? A few voices speaking on behalf of many. The problem is, those guys have their heads up their rear-ends. All they're interested in is stock price and stock valuations THIS QUARTER or THIS MONTH. To heck with a five year plan, or twenty year plan for the business's continued growth. Company loyalty is gone. If a businessman can run up stock values in the short term, he can get hired. It doesn't matter whether what he does to get the short term valuations is illegal. Or stupid. Or causes the company to collapse in the long run. That's the real problem and challenge I see with stocks being so widely distributed into hands who have so little interest in long-term prospects.
Now, on unions. I think some are terrific. I think some are no more interested in supporting their members than those wealthy guys that the Senator spoke about. I don't know anything about the public employee's union you mentioned, so don't think I'm talking about your union one way or the other. Seems like trade unions do a pretty darned good job. Seems to me like it's hard to draw a distinction between the senior officers of some unions and the corporate fat-cats with whom they negotiate. However, just like any other institution, I think unions should be treated in accordance with their behaviors. If they help the working-class folks get benefits and training and jobs at a union hall, and they help management by providing trained, reliable, consistent performers then great. That's a fantastic union. If they throw 1/10 of their members under the bus while getting good results for the remaining 90% so that they can charge a higher membership fee, then I haven't got much use for them.
My problem with the Senator's speech is this. He's a member of Congress, and they're the ones who passed the convoluted tax laws. If he's so strong on this as he says he is, in addition to that terrific speech, what actions has he taken to try and change it? To my mind, if we recognize that 50% of the nation's income is earned by 2% of the people, then it stands to reason that charging everyone the same rate (a flat tax) with no dodges, hide-outs, or discounts, would generate 50% of the tax revenue from 2% of the country. And I'm told by some that a flat tax is a regressive tax. I have never understood that. We tax INCOME, not MARGINAL UTILITY. A flat tax is only regressive when considering marginal utility (meaning a person who earns $10,000 values each dollar more than someone who earns $200,000). Simple, straight-forward taxes, no alternate taxes, no estate taxes, no capital gains taxes. Just income. If you earn it, send in a share. Same for corporations. No tax breaks to locate here or there. No tax breaks to do this, that, or the other. No tax subsidies. Just, earn some money and send in a cut. If the government wants to provide incentives for certain behaviors, then send a check. I'd like to see Congress tell renters that people with mortgages deserve to have their housing subsidized by the government, but renters don't and still get re-elected. But we accept it blindly in taxes. Another thing that would cause people to be in an uproar and start really caring about where taxes go and how they are used is if they had to cut a check to the government instead of automatic withdrawal from their paychecks. Now it's out of sight and out of mind. But if they had to send a money-order or check for that money every quarter like small businesses do, they'd probably be as involved in government as small business owners are. I think it's why the government prefers it like this - but it's a "benefit" to the tax-payer. Yeah. Right.
There's my rant. Thanks for lending me the soap-box. Who's next?
- Zurf
serious illnesses require serious medication or the body dies, emergency surgery is required to remove a life threatening cancer before it spreads to all the vital organs and as I see it our nations survival requires drastic steps be taken immediately to insure this, some will not be popular some will be painful such is the nature of the illness.Freeze all prices and wages, pass laws that at least 50% of all products made available to the public be manufactured here and regulate the speculators on wall street who are the direct reason for the sharp increase in the cost of energy namely fuel and implement a fair tax system and prohibit the offshore tucking away of profits to other countries to avoid paying a fair share of taxes.Return and recall our troops from foreign lands and end our roll as "world policemen" and station them on our southern borders to combat the infestation of guns and drugs from countries in the southern hemisphere and if there must be loss of life let it at least be in America its time to circle the wagons and mind our own business.
rant concluded
Don't think this belongs on a fun loving Guitar site Like "Chordie" end of rant
one more thing put a fixed limit on campaign funds of candidates so they will be elected on there merits this would pave the way for new leadership where more qualified people would determine the countries future and end contributions(lobbying) to political parties to influence legislation.
When I posted this I had no idea it would spark so much debate, though debate is a good thing in our Democratic society right? I am a registered voter and I've always "at least in my adult life" tried to keep an ear and an eye on Politics so that I at least have some idea of whats about to come down the pike next. I don't pretend to understand it all, and I never will but I just wanted to share this with everyone and see what, if any interest there was. I love debate and opinions and if you have one...well state it, if this is of no interest then please just overlook it.
Wayne wondered if this belongs on a fun loving guitar site such as chordie and he may be right, maybe it dosen't, but again I never dream it would spark this much debate. It was not my intention to disrupt what this site is all about and that being a guitar or musical site. I love what this site has done for me and the help I've gotten on here and appreciate it all. I know this section was created for talk of most any topic, so if the moderators feel it should be taken off then please do so as I would not be offended at all, just thought the original post was a worth a listen.
Back to the Music!
Cam
Sorry Cam,
Just seems political and religion debates usually end up baddddd !
Hi cam,I think you meant well but as you can see this post is getting heated up and politics as you bring on alot of strong feelings and arguments,out of respect for chordies basic rules we are not supposed to put politics on our forum. I think the moderators should stop this post.
Reading the guidelines at the top, I don't see any rules against having political opinions. It says arguments over religion or politics are bad. I don't see any arguments yet. All posts have been respectful and courteous to other's opinions, so far as I can see, and so is within the guidelines.
If things change, where anyone is insulted or opinions are phrased in a rude or offensive manner, whether towards another Chordie member or towards a group or individual not on Chordie, I'll shut it down and delete it in a hot minute. If another moderator of this forum disagrees with me and takes immediate action, I won't question it. However, as it is, I don't see how the guidelines have been violated. Without that, I hesitate to censor content.
- Zurf
I think sometimes speaking your mind is unavoidable and opinions are a healthy thing along with a little revolution now and then I must admit to getting fired up after listening to the good senators speech and getting 2.3 gallons of gas for $10 earlier so I offer my sincere apologies to Chordie for igniting and fueling any controversy but also give thanks for the freedom to do so
God Bless America
I think a section where we could speak our mind would benefit us. Totally off topic.
Sorry guys, never mean't to stir the pot so much, was not my intention. My initial thoughts were that it was just refreshing to hear that from a Politician, who may be or may not be ....well more honest than another, and thought I might share it with everyone here.
Cam
Without expressing an opinion on the subject, I would like to commend everyone who has posted to this topic. I have read each post and find it refreshing that folks can express their opinions without descending to meaningless insult. Disagreement with a person is not synonymous with hating them. I can, and sometimes do, disagree with my friends and yet still consider them my friends.
If this is a threadjack, I apologize.
I second what srpetty wrote. Cameron I don't know why you feel the need to apologize. You posted and others responded. My post was, perhaps, the most inflammatory yet the "harshest" rebuttal was from Zurf and his was just his own view upon the subject. It has not become antagonistic in any sense, just diverse views on the subject.
Don't be afraid to voice an opinion. Remember, this country was formed upon contrary opinion.
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