Topic: Playing by ear

I started playing the guitar about four years ago and can play most open chord songs if I have the chords in front of me, for example, songs provided on Chordie.com

The thing that's driving me crazy is my inability to listen to a song and work out the chords myself.

Sometimes I can recognize a simple progression in a song and find the first couple of chords but as the song progresses I'm knackered.

If I can get the first chord of the song I then know the key and can work out the chords in that key but actually hearing the chords used in the song is doing my head in.

Any tips would be appreciated as I feel that I can't progress until I can play by ear.

A pal of mine can pick out the base line and work the chords out just by listening to the song once. I've tried and tried but just can't do it.

HELP HELP HELP

Re: Playing by ear

This should get you started:

http://www.justinguitar.com/html/transcribing.html

Su

I am playing all the right notes - but not necessarily in the right order! [Eric Morecombe]

Re: Playing by ear

make sure you know (you may already do)  harmonic theory forward backward and sideways

try the expected chords in the key. then try the obvious combinations

Re: Playing by ear

Jeff, I sometimes have this problem too. the good thing is you can get the chord progression.

What I usually do is sit wit hthe guitar and try strumming a chord continually until I hear it is right with the song. Or sometimes a G. or A or D. usually find out what key the song is in then.
Then just fart about wit hthe chords within that key.
If you know the song very well then it makes it easier.

But also remember that sometimes bands tune down as well as tuning up on their guitar so if your guitar is tuned in concert pitch then ye might not get any of your chords sounding like the song you are trying to work out.


I had a lot of trouble years ago when I was learning bass lines for Guns 'n' roses songs. they tune down, just like Jimmy hendrix. When I finally bought the bass line book, that told me they tuned down. after I tuned down I never had much bother whith the bass lines.

Hope that helps, even if a wee bit


Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending

Re: Playing by ear

Thanks for the tips. I'll try everything. I'll get there in the end, I hope

Re: Playing by ear

If you know what key it's in, you should at all times know the IV and the V for that key.  Odds are pretty high they'll be in there someplace.  It would also help to know each of the triadic chords for the entire key.   Learning the major scales is eminently useful for this.

Someday we'll win this thing...

[url=http://www.aclosesecond.com]www.aclosesecond.com[/url]

Re: Playing by ear

Hi Ken
I "smelled"this already a few times, ( see bands as Metallica).
But how much do they tune lower, or higher? Is it like playing F# on the second fret, and tune the guitar resulting in F# played on thhe first fret?

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

Re: Playing by ear

Hey there Jeff, I too am self taught and what I can tell you is that figuring out tunes is an ability that one gets better at like any thing else the more you practice at the easier it becomes. What I do is use bar chords to help find what fits while the tune is being played and then if you choose to swich them over to open chords, Learning how to play bar chords would be my first step in your case if you want my opinion.

what a long strange trip it's been

Re: Playing by ear

Thanks again everyone for taking the time to reply and give tips.
Patrick, it's encouraging to hear that I'll get better with practice. I probably do give up too easily and by trying too hard seem to develop a mental block. When I can't find the chords in the first few minutes I get impatient and look them up on Chordie.
I'm gonna give it a real go over the next few days.
Jerome, at times I can hear the IV & V when they're together. I must admit that I've never learned scales. Too lazy I guess. How does knowing the major scale help. I'd persevere in learning them If I knew how I'd use them.

Re: Playing by ear

Learning scales is kind of like learning algebra.  You sit there wondering how you're ever going to use this stuff and then one day you've got the answer in front of you and you need to figure out what the question was and all of a sudden you're pleased that you did the work. 

It's possible to play without scales, but a lot harder to figure things out.  I've been a bass player most of my life, but only just started to work scales a couple of years ago and it's been tremendously helpful.  I wish I had done it twenty years ago. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: Playing by ear

gitaardocphil wrote:

Hi Ken
I "smelled"this already a few times, ( see bands as Metallica).
But how much do they tune lower, or higher? Is it like playing F# on the second fret, and tune the guitar resulting in F# played on thhe first fret?

Possibly Doc,
I did not know that metallica tuned down though. I used to play " for whom the bells toll" on the bass.
I know guns and roses tune down a semitone as does Jimmy, but others I am not sure about.

Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending

Re: Playing by ear

jeffnvon wrote:

Jerome, at times I can hear the IV & V when they're together. I must admit that I've never learned scales. Too lazy I guess. How does knowing the major scale help. I'd persevere in learning them If I knew how I'd use them.

When they talk about the IV and the V, they're talking about the fourth and fifth note of the scale in which key you're playing in.

So if you know which key you're in, play that scale, and the 4th and 5th notes you play are the related IV and V chords.

Example, in C.

C D E F G A B C

The 4th and 5th notes of the C major scale are F and G.  So if you were playing in the key of C, you could count on F and G major chords showing up. 

Same with any other major key.  In fact, almost all common chord progressions can be derived this way.

Someday we'll win this thing...

[url=http://www.aclosesecond.com]www.aclosesecond.com[/url]

13 (edited by johncross21 2007-10-24 00:02:54)

Re: Playing by ear

Jerome's right

assuming that we are looking at the major key.

The expected chords in C major all contain the notes of the C major scale. They are

I C
II Dm
III EM
IV F
V G
VI AM


the commonest chords are I IV and IV. So for songs in C look for F and G.

my favorite book on contemporary harmony is "guitar playing and song writing" by Rikky Rooksby.

its mainly for song writers but it has loads of tips/ideas on common chord progressions

I do  occasionally want to play songs in the minor key. These are the expected chords in Am

I      Am
bII   Bb
III   C
IVb  Dm
V     Em
VI    F
VII  G

of course these are only rules of thumb - it works for many bands but if you listen to jazz or someone like radiohead you will have to listen hard because often artists will avoid formulas

Re: Playing by ear

Jeff, you have a lot of information now and this makes me happy. It is difficult to add more comment. I learned a lot, trying to play along with songs, this helped me a lot.
Zurf, your answer is great. Reading it, I get scared. All those scales. I am not a guitar hero, but I play pretty good, until I read, see, and hear other people playing. In a way, I am lazy too, skipping a lot of very interesting tips, like blues scales. Tabs: same thing.
Even playing pretty good, I notice that 90% are playing better.
- Fingerpicking: I try, and I use it more and more ONLY a few seconds.
- What term is used when you try to play "fingerpicking style" using a pick?
- Am I lost, because I developed a particular style, like strumming, followed by blocking chords, or strumming starting with the big E string to the little E string? This strumming is going once or twice, down, and going back, I use often 2 or 3 strings, providing me a similar sound as a power chord.

[color=blue]- GITAARDOCPHIL SAIS: TO CONQUER DEAD, YOU HAVE TO DIE[/color]   AND [color=blue] we are born to die[/color]
- MY GUITAR PLAYS EVERY STYLE = BLUES, ROCK, METAL, so I NEED TO LEARN HOW TO PLAY IT.
[color=blue]Civilization began the first time an angry person cast a word instead of a rock.[/color]

Re: Playing by ear

gitaardocphil wrote:

- What term is used when you try to play "fingerpicking style" using a pick?

Flatpicking.


About your style - PLAY IT!  Play it, play it, play it, play it, play it.  Do what you like.  Other people play other stuff, you play your stuff.  That's the way it all works.  I guarantee you, the 90% that you think are better than you because they're flat-picking wizards are hearing your blocked chords getting all funky and they're thinking, "Man, I wish I could play like that." 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude