Topic: Scales

I'm finally taking my own advice and started working my way through an intensive scales course book last night.  I've had it for years but I only recently have taken the time to read through it enough to understand their approach to teaching.  It's a bit sideways, but I finally figured it out.  So, metronome on 88 to take it nice and slow and be able to play them perfectly.  No...wait.  Better make that 80. 


Uh oh.........74 might be better.




Hmmmmm.  Harder than I thought to play it perfectly.  Fingertips rolling to fleshy parts, missed alternative picking, muted strings, wrong frets.  Lets try 68.  Surely I can play scales perfectly at 68. 



Seems that I can't, and stop calling me Shirley. 


Finally, at 60 beats per minute, I got close enough to perfect that I'm willing to work with it for a while. 


Wow. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: Scales

Keep at it Zurf you will be a mutant in no time lol

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Re: Scales

What does it start on, Zurf, is it the major scale? Any pointers for some interesting blues or minor scales?

Is anything really made up of zeros and ones??

Re: Scales

The course starts with the C major scale (what it calls the "natural" scale) starting from every note of the scale and using all the strings each time.  Then it gets into different practice patterns for that scale.  Then it gets into different scales to which you apply the same exercises.  Gratefully, it seems to ignore modes entirely.  That's down the road for me. 

It's a very slow, methodical approach.  There's minor scales and blues scales, but they are way, way, way back in the book.  I wouldn't recommend this book to jump right into pentatonic scales, whether minor or blues or major.  Slow and methodical works for me.  It's how I approach most new and relatively complicated things.  Well begun is half done is my usual approach to things. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: Scales

Russell_Harding wrote:

Keep at it Zurf you will be a mutant in no time lol

Thanks Russell.  I hope to achieve mutation some day, but it won't be any day soon.  I'll keep strumming along for now and learning the picking basics for as long as it takes.  I'm in no hurry and not trying to please anyone but myself. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: Scales

Slow and steady is the road to follow smile

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Re: Scales

Here's the thing about those minor and blues scales...  If you can play major scales, you're already playing those minor scales as well.

Zurf, if you're playing C major across all the strings in the first position, do it starting on E.  So you'd be playing E F G A B C D E F G A B C D E F G, ending up on the 1st string, without ever taking your hand out of 1st position.  That's pretty simple to do.  It's also E phrygian.  Start it on the A string, and you're playing A minor.

Someday we'll win this thing...

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Re: Scales

Yeah, that's the stuff that took me so long to get through in the introduction of the book.  He said he's starting out with the "natural scale", which is all the natural notes, which is also C major (I understood that much) and A minor (which took me a long time of head scratching, diagram writing, staring at a piano keyboard, and similar stuff).  Finally I had the Eureka! moment "AHA!  That's why the minor sixth is the relative minor to a major key," and I was able to finally pick up my guitar and start plucking strings very, very slowly. 

You did just toss that E phrygian at me, and I don't really appreciate it.  So I am going to do with it what I do with all untimely information, ignore it until the next Eureka! moment. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: Scales

Zurf wrote:

You did just toss that E phrygian at me, and I don't really appreciate it.  So I am going to do with it what I do with all untimely information, ignore it until the next Eureka! moment. 

- Zurf

The E phrygian stuff (and all the modal scales) are exactly the same Eureka moment as your relative minor moment.  Rather than starting your C major on A and playing A minor as a result, you start it on E and play phrygian as a result, or D and play dorian as a result, or F and play lydian as a result, or G and play myxolidian as a result (a handy one to know, as it is gorgeous over 7 chords), etc....

Patterns! Eureka!

Someday we'll win this thing...

[url=http://www.aclosesecond.com]www.aclosesecond.com[/url]

Re: Scales

Learn and love major, minor, mixolydian and dorian and you'll be good to go. The mode Jerome is talking about is phriggin' ridiculous.

See what I did there?

11 (edited by jerome.oneil 2012-08-17 19:43:13)

Re: Scales

Phrygian is awesome for country songs.  Minor tonality with that Spanish flair.

The only mode I can't really get my head around is locrian, and that's because you have to be a weird jazz dude to make it work.

Someday we'll win this thing...

[url=http://www.aclosesecond.com]www.aclosesecond.com[/url]

Re: Scales

Russell_Harding wrote:

Keep at it Zurf you will be a mutant in no time lol

Got too love that,hey zurf just go too your heartbeat rate.

my papy said son your going too drive me too drinking if you dont stop driving that   Hot  Rod  Lincoln!! Cmdr cody and his lost planet airman

Re: Scales

Baldguitardude wrote:

Learn and love major, minor, mixolydian and dorian and you'll be good to go. The mode Jerome is talking about is phriggin' ridiculous.

See what I did there?

Yup - that phriggin' phrygian scale kills me!!

My eyes usually start to roll behind my head at the mention of scales. At least I got a chuckle out of this one!

Rule No. 1 - If it sounds good - it is good!

Re: Scales

Jerome you can make locrian work in funk too.

Re: Scales

Since we're on the subject, here's a question I've been wanting to ask for a while.

For those of you who are really adept at playing scales, you're probably to the point where you don't have to think about it, but the question is, while you were learning, what were you thinking about?

Here's what I mean:  Did you (for example) picture the entire (say) major scale pattern starting at a specific fret, such that you "saw" a series of little targets across the fretboard?

Or did you do something similar to what I do, which is memorize the pattern needed on each string.  Across four frets (with fret 2 being the scale you want to play), here's what I think about:

string 6 = frets 2, 4
5 = 1, 2, 4
4 = 1, 3, 4
3 = 1, 3, 4
2 = 2, 4
1 = 1, 2

This works, but I feel like I'm pidgeonholing myself and I struggle to find my bearings when I don't start on string 6 or when I want to skip strings.  I'm thinking there should be a better way.

Thoughts?

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." - Despair, Inc.

Re: Scales

For bass, I memorized the patterns and how one pattern would fit over another (allowing me to move up or down).  You'd think this would translate to guitar success.  In my case, you'd have thought wrong (as I did). 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: Scales

I memorized the pattern which in retrospect was a huge mistake.I should have been thinking about note names and scale positions.

Re: Scales

Baldguitardude wrote:

Jerome you can make locrian work in funk too.

I'm sure someone can, but it ain't me.  big_smile

Someday we'll win this thing...

[url=http://www.aclosesecond.com]www.aclosesecond.com[/url]

Re: Scales

Astronomikal wrote:

For those of you who are really adept at playing scales, you're probably to the point where you don't have to think about it, but the question is, while you were learning, what were you thinking about?

I focus on roots, and patterns.  If I know a pattern and I know where the roots are within that pattern, I can fuddle my way along without having to worry about specific notes.

Someday we'll win this thing...

[url=http://www.aclosesecond.com]www.aclosesecond.com[/url]

Re: Scales

I find it funny that you would call the pentatonic scale hard. Not to blow my own horn but since I play  only rock and hard rock/metal the most, it is the only scale I use right now. After many months of practice (not a lot of time spent at one time) I am finally getting the pattern down on the fret board. Don't know the exact notes but I know which frets to hit for the key the song is in. This has helped me to modify some of the solos that I come across.

On the other hand I was thinking it was time to learn some of the other scales.

Re: Scales

jerome.oneil wrote:

The E phrygian stuff (and all the modal scales) are exactly the same Eureka moment as your relative minor moment.

Not quite.  I already understood what a minor scale was and how it was formed when I had the Eureka! moment about relative minors.  Because I am still confused by modes and how they are formed, it's more of a Eureka? moment.   Please don't try to unconfuse me about modes right now.  You'll go through a bunch of effort just to have me scratch my head and ignore it until I have a firmer grasp on forming and applying scales on the guitar neck.  Baby steps. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: Scales

Here's my advice on scales.  Learn them before you start getting arthritis in your hands.  Holy moly!  Ben Gay rub and Pain Free spray have been my buddies this week, that's for sure. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: Scales

it will be worth the work though,your hands and other muscles will soon be used too it.

my papy said son your going too drive me too drinking if you dont stop driving that   Hot  Rod  Lincoln!! Cmdr cody and his lost planet airman

Re: Scales

It's amazing how stressed I get trying to get them right.  As I work on them I realize I'm white knuckling the pick.  Like it's trying to escape or something.  Just one more thing to remember.  Fingertips, bend knuckles, move thumb, the right notes to play, finger right behind the fret, keep time, hold the pick comfortably but firmly and without stress, alternate picking direction.  It's enough to drive a person to drink, which is one of the more pleasant bits about it.   

I've set a timer and work for five minutes playing the scale up and back in a steady loop for five minutes, take a few moments break, then repeat that twice more.  That gives me fifteen minutes of scale practice per session.  As I get better, I'll move that up, but for now fifteen minutes on scales per day will have to do.

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: Scales

Zurf wrote:

It's amazing how stressed I get trying to get them right.  As I work on them I realize I'm white knuckling the pick.  Like it's trying to escape or something.  Just one more thing to remember.  Fingertips, bend knuckles, move thumb, the right notes to play, finger right behind the fret, keep time, hold the pick comfortably but firmly and without stress, alternate picking direction.  It's enough to drive a person to drink, which is one of the more pleasant bits about it.   

I've set a timer and work for five minutes playing the scale up and back in a steady loop for five minutes, take a few moments break, then repeat that twice more.  That gives me fifteen minutes of scale practice per session.  As I get better, I'll move that up, but for now fifteen minutes on scales per day will have to do.

It's a lot like golf then.  Too may things to remember.

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