Topic: String Tension

Hi Everyone,

I have recently re-strung the old acoustic and the string tension seems higher than before. I can't remember what make of string I had on it before but they were definitely "looser" if that's the term. I am finding that I really have to press hard to stop barre chords buzzing when I play them. I have checked the string diameters and they are identical to the last strings I had on. Does the manufacturer make a difference? The one's I have just put on are Martin 80\20 Bronze in light guage .012 - .054.
Any help would certainly be appreciated or I'm going to end up with a left forearm like Popeye!!

"We cannot hold a torch to light another's path without brightening our own." (Ben Sweetland)

Re: String Tension

First make sure you didn't accidentally tune it one octave higher.  It happens.  What kind of a tuner are you using? Those are light strings so you shouldn't have the buzz.

You can see all my video covers on [url]http://www.youtube.com/bensonp1000[/url]
I have finally found happiness in my life.  Guitars, singing, beer and camping.  And they all intertwine wonderfully.

Re: String Tension

I use a tuner which tells me the octave so I should be okay there I think. There isn't a huge difference but it is noticeable, to me at least. When I played before I am sure I didn't have to press so hard. Perhaps I need more breakfast cereal!

"We cannot hold a torch to light another's path without brightening our own." (Ben Sweetland)

Re: String Tension

I have no explanations, but will toss out some possibilities.  There are a lot of variables in strings from construction to material to age.  It seems reasonable to me that as strings stretch and "settle in" that they'd feel different from new strings, and it makes sense to me that phospher bronze strings will feel different from nickle will feel different from silk and steel.  Flatwounds will feel different from round wounds will feel different from half-rounds.  Finally, I think that fingers are a somewhat unrelaible means for measuring string tension. 

So, given all the variables, my suggestion is for you to eat some Wheaties. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: String Tension

Ah.
I'll get my bowl then. Thanks guys.
Is there a thread on string type? I must admit I go into the shop and I'm presented with a wall full of strings and I have no idea which to chose. The man in the shop usually just grabs a pack and says those are a good general purpose string and I just go along with him.

"We cannot hold a torch to light another's path without brightening our own." (Ben Sweetland)

Re: String Tension

Ohhhhh, GBD (Great Big Dave) there's LOTS of threads floating around about string suggestions and really everyone has a difference of opinion.  This section (acoustic) is a good place to look though.  Personally, I wouldn't think that there'd be anything wrong with being a guy with Popeye arms (as long as you figure out how to work out your right arm and aren't unbalanced).  wink

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

Re: String Tension

Hi GBD,

One possibility comes to mind. If the old strings had been on a while there could be a built up of crud in them giving a false reading on the vernier scale/micrometer. On an acoustic you can go as light as 10s but the heavier string will give a fuller sound.

It might also be an idea to check the straightness of the fretboard. If there is more tension the neck is likely to bend and may need a truss rod adjustment. A word of warning, if you have not adjusted a truss rod before take it to someone who knows what they are doing.

Roger

"Do, or do not; there is no try"

Re: String Tension

Woah! I make it a point not to touch anything with the word 'Truss' in the title! That way lies madness methinks.
I think the neck is okay, if I press down hard enough there is no problem at all. I'm just a bit perturbed that I even have to think about it when I am not playing any different to how I normally would. I am thinking that it must be the strings because I got them from a different shop and I don't think that I have had this make before. Having had a root through my guitar stuff I have bags with Jim Dunlop and DAddario and the like but no Martin. I take my guitar to a Luthier every year for a set up and he generally just hands me the same strings he put on. I don't have to look. Lazy I suppose.
Think I will take Amy's advice and have a peruse of this forum, see if I can learn something. Although last time a young lady told me to excercise my right arm It didn't go well!!

"We cannot hold a torch to light another's path without brightening our own." (Ben Sweetland)

Re: String Tension

Different strings do have different tensions... Even in the same brand they are different... For instance martin marquee lights have less tension then standard martins of the same diameter. I have a tension chart posted somewhere in Guitars and Accesories that lists the most popular brands and their tensions when strung to pitch... I'll see if I can find it and post a link here for ya.

[b][color=#FF0000]If your brain is part of the process, you're missing it. You should play like a drowning man, struggling to reach shore. If you can trap that feeling, then you have something.
[/color][/b]         [b]Peace of mind. That's my piece of mind...[/b]

Re: String Tension

Guitarpix, you are indeed a gentleman of the highest order!

"We cannot hold a torch to light another's path without brightening our own." (Ben Sweetland)

Re: String Tension

Still looking for the chart but wanted to add that what you're feeling probably has more to do with the strings stiffness than it's tension... This differes from brand and type also... You just have to experiment to find what works best with your style and set up...

Also when considering strings it's always best to consult the manufacturer. Guitar tops (the good ones) are tuned to a certain tension and perform best in that range. Most think that mediums will always sound better than lights and lights better than xtra lights, etc... but that's not always true. Let's take the guitar I'm holding now ,a '73 yairi DY77, it's tuned/built to use light gauge strings and if I were to put mediums on it, not only would the top become overdrivin and become muddy sounding but it would also void the warranty and likely cause damage! There's actually a label in this guitar that gives you the proper string gauge and warning that if you excede that it will void warranty and likely cause damage...   Just something to keep in mind...

Now back to looking for that chart smile I keep finding topics online with people discussing the chart but can't actually find IT...lol

[b][color=#FF0000]If your brain is part of the process, you're missing it. You should play like a drowning man, struggling to reach shore. If you can trap that feeling, then you have something.
[/color][/b]         [b]Peace of mind. That's my piece of mind...[/b]

Re: String Tension

I don't like Martin strings. 

I use D'Addorio almost exclusively, though I've been trying some others lately.  I do use Elixir nano strings sometimes and right now I have Peavey strings on because I bought them for $3 out of a cheap bin.  I'll probably try some of those rare earth or whatevers, and maybe some Ernie Ball strings as all the bluegrass guys seem to dig those.  Anyway.  I try all sorts of strings and change them about every four to six weeks.  I switch up brands, materials, and sizes. 

My Yamaha sounds best with D'Addario Silk and Steel .011's, but they go dead from the oils on my hands in about two weeks and take two or three days to settle in. So I don't get much play out of them.  Elixir nanoweb .012s are the second best sound for that guitar.  They last a loooooot longer, so despite being more than twice the price are a better value for me.  I can get two months or more out of those strings on that guitar. 

I'm still messing around with my Guild to see what sound I like best.  So far, the phospher bronze is leading the pack.  The el cheapo Peavey strings actually sound pretty good.  These are .012s.  I've found that the Guild likes .012s and .013s, but my Yamaha likes .011s and .012s.  Must have to do with what Guitarpix said.  My Yamaha came strung with .010s and it sounded like trash.  But I've lowered the bridge and had a truss rod adjustment to take the .012s. 

There's some rambling thoughts. 

Short story of it: Strings are cheap.  Try a bunch.  If you use a pick, try different picks too.  I was amazed at how much difference a pick makes to tone. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: String Tension

I like D'Addario on my acoustics, and Ernie Ball "Definitely Not Slinky" on my electrics.  Biggest fattest gnarliest strings I can find.

Someday we'll win this thing...

[url=http://www.aclosesecond.com]www.aclosesecond.com[/url]

Re: String Tension

Stupid trick.Try tuning an octave lower.As long as the strings are in tune to each other it should sound fine.It will take some of the tension off the strings and make it easier to play.It may even give it a deeper gritty sound(best way to describe it).Give it a try.The worst that can happen is nothing.

Enjoy Every Sandwich
Nothing In Moderation  -- Live Fast. Love Hard. Die Young And Leave A Beautiful Corpse. -- Buy It Today. Cry About It Tomorrow.

Re: String Tension

Wow!! I had no idea that strings were such a science. When I bought this guitar new, it actually had ordinary steel strings like an electric which made it play really easy but the sound was very thin. When I had it set up properly, it came back with bronze strings which sounded much better.
I think I will go and see the Luthier at the weekend and take some professional advice. I don't want to damage something by experimenting.
Thanks for all the advice everyone. I knew I could rely on you.

"We cannot hold a torch to light another's path without brightening our own." (Ben Sweetland)

Re: String Tension

Pix... I remember that was a REALLY good post, and I looked and can't find it either.  When you do find it, I think maybe it should be copied into a new topic and made as a sticky for reference.  There was really good info in there!

GBD - that's not a bad idea!  Some professional advice couldn't hurt (except for maybe your wallet).  Update the thread here when you come back.  I'm curious to know what the pro has to say.  I have Daddario bronze/phospher strings on my guitar right now and am not overly impressed.  They had a nice tone to them (though different) when I first put them on, but it's been only a week or two and already they are sounding old.  I like elixer nanowebs for their staying power.

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

Re: String Tension

I certainly will. The guy I go to is really friendly and usually happy to help so I will pump him for as much info as I can and post up what I find.
Until I came to this forum I thought I was the only one who didn't know this kind of stuff, everyone else in the music shops seem to just walk up and confidently pick up their stuff like it's the easiest thing in the world. I find it quite intimidating sometimes walking up to a guy who is doing major league solos and riffs and asking "what's a capo?". Like being the thick kid in school!
Going on to these forums and finding that there are other people out there who struggle to get into some chord shapes and are not at all sure about some aspects of their instrument has been a revalation to me. I am not alone!!
Thanks people.

"We cannot hold a torch to light another's path without brightening our own." (Ben Sweetland)

Re: String Tension

You are not alone. 

Everyone here, and I expect everywhere else for that matter, had to learn that stuff too.  You should never concern yourself about looking foolish while you try to learn.  If someone thinks that you do, it says much more about that person than it does you. 

When I passed my first course in introductory tennis, the instructor gave this speech to the class, and I think it applies well to guitar too, "Congratulations.  Each of you now knows something about tennis.  From this point on, for as long as you play tennis you need to do two things.  The first thing is to play with someone who is better than you.  That is how you improve.  The second thing is to play with someone who is not as good as you.  That is how they learn." 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: String Tension

Wise words indeed! Thanks Zurf.

"We cannot hold a torch to light another's path without brightening our own." (Ben Sweetland)

Re: String Tension

Guitarpix, I think I just found the post you were refering to:

http://www.chordie.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=15254

What a post! that must have taken some serious research. Think I will print that one out.

"We cannot hold a torch to light another's path without brightening our own." (Ben Sweetland)

Re: String Tension

I do believe you have found it, GBD.  See, you are can be helpful no matter how much you know.

You can see all my video covers on [url]http://www.youtube.com/bensonp1000[/url]
I have finally found happiness in my life.  Guitars, singing, beer and camping.  And they all intertwine wonderfully.

Re: String Tension

IN Russia, they probably have two kinds of guitar strings - for sale and not for sale!  Ha! 
My standard acoustic strings are the Martin 80/20 Bronze Light gauge (not Marquis) that cost $4-5 a set.  On my guitars they sound good; I know that I'll wear them out in a couple weeks, but they're not expensive.  (I buy 20 sets each time I order.)  However, I still branch out.  I like the sound of John Pearse strings and buy a couple sets now and then; I also like Elixirs because I chord-slide often and will string those for solo gigs (but when I play ensemble and thus, solo often, I expect the G-string to break - even on a fresh set!); Cleartones sound great but the coating is thinner or less than the Elixirs and they do not hide the (sliding) string buzz well. 
The Finale?  In my guitar-junk closet, right now I have 5 different acoustic strings.  Even the perfect one needs comparison to remind me it's perfect.  For everyday, run-of-the-mill strings, I'd recommend the Martin 80/20 Bronze... for the tone, the price and durability.  (I bend alot on acoustic leads; and have not broken a string on a Martin set!)

Live to play, play to live!

Re: String Tension

Hey, *mekidsMom* -altho I do like Elixirs, I quickly wear out strings on the frets so even Elixirs don't last the hyped 3-5X longer... due only to my play-style.  For me, they last twice the time of regular cheapies (the Martins, which are fine).  But they are rather buzz-less!

Live to play, play to live!

Re: String Tension

Went to see my Luthier friend at the weekend and he pretty much agreed with Zurf, it's all down to personal taste at the end of the day and every giutar is different. My string tension problem is almost certainly down to the neck having moved slightly. We have had a really dry few of months here and humidity has an effect on anything made of wood. He reckons that removing and replacing tension whilst changing the strings can cause tiny movements in the neck and make the guitar feel different although he says that new strings should feel looser if anything!!
Anyway I have given him the guitar and I'll see how it comes back. Last time I gave it to him it felt like a new guitar, with the strings almost drawn on! No buzzes anywhere.
I don't think I will be using Martin strings again though. Once bitten...

"We cannot hold a torch to light another's path without brightening our own." (Ben Sweetland)