Topic: Philosophical (and possibly stupid) question

Yes, I know:  "Remember, there are no stupid questions, only stupid people." - Mr Garrison (South Park).

Okay, I've been thinking about this for a while now and I don't have ANY answer, much less a good one, so I'd like to hear what you have to say about it.

Once upon a time, long ago (some longer than others), you picked up a guitar and had no idea what to do with it.  You decided that you wanted to learn how to play it, so you began lessons (formal or informal), or began teaching yourself some basics, such as picking out songs note by note.  Eventually you learned your first chord.  And then another, and then maybe a third or fourth.  Pretty soon, you learned a basic strumming pattern and learned how to make your fretting hand change from chord to chord faster and faster.  You kept practicing, and eventually maybe you learned how to play your first "song".

Later, you learned more chords, different strumming patterns, and eventually maybe some fingerpicking patterns as well.  Your skills and dexterity increased along with your knowledge.  The more you practiced, the better you got (except for that darned B7 chord, which you're convinced was first proposed by Satan).

Eventually, YOU GOT TO THE POINT where if anyone asked, you could say that you "play the guitar" and you can call yourself a "guitar player".

Here's my question:  WHAT IS THAT POINT?

In other words, at what point did you consider yourself transitioning from playing AROUND on a guitar to PLAYING a guitar?

I do realize that skill levels vary greatly from person to person.  A year or so ago, I considered my brother-in-law to be a "good" guitar player.  During this past year, I've pretty much caught up with him, but when I ask myself:  "Am I a guitar player?", I still consider myself to be an amateur who is not very good.  So I don't know if I can consider myself a guitar player, or whether I'm still just playing around.

I was trying to liken it to a sports analogy.  I used to play baseball.  When I played on a TEAM, I considered myself to be a baseball player.  Now that I'm no longer on a team, I no longer consider myself to be a baseball player, even though I still know how to play.  By that analogy, I'm not a guitar player unless I'm in a band, which is definitely not true.  You can see why that analogy doesn't work.

Truth be told, it's really not that important.  But what tickled my brain on this was that recently I was at a function and the subject of guitars came up.  Some on asked me:  "Do you play?", and all I could muster was "Well, sort of."  I would like to be able to answer that question with:  "DANG STRAIGHT!  BRING IT!"

(By this point, you're probably thinking:  This guy thinks about things too much.  And you'd probably be right.)

So here it is - For those of you who DO consider yourselves to be guitar players:  At what point did you realize that you are one?

(Now you understand the title of this post.)  smile

Thanks for indulging,
'Nomikal

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." - Despair, Inc.

Re: Philosophical (and possibly stupid) question

Not a dumb question, just not a cut and dry answer.

I think it is all relative to each person and their situation. If you feel comfortable enough to play in front of others and are not shy of your skill. When asked, I say I play guitar (I know Zurf, play songs ....). But I don't consider my self a guitar player. I think for me, a guitar player is one that can perform in front of an audience. This I am not yet comfortable with.   

For most of us I would say, it depends on if there is a chance of the question "do you play" leading to actually playing. If there is no chance of that then we say yes I do play. If there could be a chance of getting a guitar shoved into our hands we might use the go to answer, "Well, sort of."  If you're with a group of guitar players at  a club you are probly less apt to play than if you were with a group of golfers at the clubhouse.

I don't think there is a certain milestone that you hit to become a guitar player. There are people who call themselves guitar players that really should be digging ditches instead of playing, but that doesn't stop them.

So Nomikal, when will you consider yourself to be good? I too am an amateur that is not very good. My friends say I'm good cuz I am can play more than they can. But I don't see myself as good. It's all relative to the company you keep I guess.

That's my take on it anyway.

Keep Rockin!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Philosophical (and possibly stupid) question

Yep, its all relative.  If you can sit down and start playing songs from memory, chords and lyrics, then I'd say you play guitar pretty good.  Now, me, I need to see the lyrics and chords before I can play most things.  I never take the time it takes to memorize the songs.  Put the music in front of me and I can play a lot of songs.  I'd say, either way, if you play in front of anyone, with or without the music, and they say you are good, then you are a guitar player.

You can see all my video covers on [url]http://www.youtube.com/bensonp1000[/url]
I have finally found happiness in my life.  Guitars, singing, beer and camping.  And they all intertwine wonderfully.

Re: Philosophical (and possibly stupid) question

I realized it when I no longer needed to question myself about it and earned a living doing it as to how good I am I would imagine if I can play the lead intros and fills note for note to popular songs and come up with some good ones of my own I would conclude that I am good not the best but good smile

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Re: Philosophical (and possibly stupid) question

Any point that makes you comfortable. 

As Zguitar points out, I do differentiate between playing songs on guitar and playing guitar.  That's MY take and MY opinion.  It does not and should not bind anyone else unless it resonates with them and they adopt the concept for themselves. 

So, if you feel comfortable saying you play guitar, then say you play guitar.  You aren't lying.  You aren't claiming to be the best that ever lived.  You're just saying, "Yeah, I know what to do with a guitar in my hands and can bang out a song or seven."  Good enough. 

When asked, I usually say I play AT the guitar or play WITH a guitar.  When I will feel confident saying that I play guitar, it will be when I am  more skilled at major, minor, and blues scales and be able to play up or down arpeggios and some useful inversions up to the seventh fret.   That's my test for ME for saying I play the guitar.  Right now, I still feel as if I play songs on guitar. 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

6 (edited by PapaTom 2010-06-07 00:54:43)

Re: Philosophical (and possibly stupid) question

I ride a bicycle.  I'm not all that fast and I'm not a great hill climber.  Still, one of the things that make me happiest in life is being on a bike saddle.  I've ridden virtually every day since 1996 and have done several pretty long bike tours, but the bike clubs I encounter on my rides blow by me without breaking a sweat. 

Yet, when someone asks if I ride, I respond, without hesitation, "Yes, I ride!"

Me with my first ukulele, a Junior Beatles model, in 1966.  After Mom threw it down the stairs in a fit of rage, I became a drummer for life.  At age 43, I bought my second uke...

Re: Philosophical (and possibly stupid) question

I had myself "stuck" at a small campfire in the dark.  No chance of seeing music, and can hardly see the fretboard or dots to know what fret I'm on.  Really... all I could see were the strings.  THAT sure made a difference with the "can you play" issue.  I can only play two songs well this way.  I can play a few more without seeing music but need to see my strings.  With music and lyrics then I'm better.  So this weekend before the fire I said something about having my guitar with me.  I was asked, "OH you play??" and I answered... "just a little".  Then my husband chimes in with how great I am, and I stop him and look like I'm just being modest.  Really, there's a lot to be said for those that DON'T play and their opinions (just a little is a lot to someone who plays none or can't get through an entire song). 

So Nomikal... right now my answer is "I play guitar, but just a little".  big_smile  I guess when I can play a bunch of songs blindly then maybe I'll feel more comfy saying "I play guitar a bit" smile  and I agree with Roger and Zurf... it won't be until I feel that I'm good enough to possibly get paid to play before I'd say "Heck YEAH I play guitar!"

Art and beauty are in the eyes of the beholder.
What constitutes excellent music is in the ears of the listener.

8 (edited by Guitarpix 2010-06-07 12:04:23)

Re: Philosophical (and possibly stupid) question

All depends on who I'm playing with lol Around some I'm great and around others I'm just starting my journey smile Seriously though,  I consider myself a guitar player....What was the turning point??? For me it was just a few months ago..

Most of us have friends that we jam with... Well I have this one friend that has been critical to me learning to play. He started in High school and has been playing for 20+ years now. I've learned soo much by playing with him! Well we hadn't jammed in a few months and he came over and we went through our 20-30 songs that we always play together and then we hit a mental block and I was just sitting there noodling a bunch of stuff that I've been working on on my own... I wasn't thinking about anybody being there just going with the flow so to speak. I finished playing and looked up and he was staring at me.... I was a little embarrased but he just looked straight at me and said "Man you've come a long way! I play with a lot of people and I just want to say If I had to take someone to the crossroads it would be you!! That was an amazing feeling and I think it kinda changed my mind set... I value his opinion since he's the honest kind that will tell you to stop because the dogs are crying if it doesn't sound good smile Since then I've kinda looked at myself as a little more than just a beginner but ,compared to some, I'm still just starting out wink

[b][color=#FF0000]If your brain is part of the process, you're missing it. You should play like a drowning man, struggling to reach shore. If you can trap that feeling, then you have something.
[/color][/b]         [b]Peace of mind. That's my piece of mind...[/b]

Re: Philosophical (and possibly stupid) question

I've been playing for years and still say "I play a bit". I hope I'm never content with my skill level. There is always something to learn. The key is to enjoy the journey. Does it put a smile on your face from time to time? Then you play a bit too!

I used to be disgusted; now I try to be amused.
Elvis Costello

Re: Philosophical (and possibly stupid) question

For me, I felt like a "guitar player" right about when two things happened...
I took my grade 5 classical guitar exam, passed it, and started composing acoustic style songs... thats when i had something to offer that not everybody does, and you feel like you actually claim the title 'guitar player'. But I never feel like I know enough...

Re: Philosophical (and possibly stupid) question

I once was talking to a couple of guys at work , and asked one if he played guitar .. he said yeah , I play a little.. The other guy said "Steve are you kidding? he has like 17 students and plays for the la la la,, etc.

So that guy really went on the underestimating side.
If some asks me if I play guitar ,, i say I  really enjoy playing guitar.. So  i dont put any expectations on them.  That way whatever they think of me , when they hear me , hopefully  they dont go , { that dude cant play } lol.

If they come out direct& ask if Im a guitar player ,, I just take my chances and say yes
Steve

Re: Philosophical (and possibly stupid) question

I rarely play in front of strangers.

Family Yes ! I would be like MKM. i need my books and chords to get it right.. Yet, when the books are there in front of me,
I rarely use them.  Do I play Guitar ? Yes ! Am i a good guitar player ?. I would think not. Others say i am..
I couldnt give a hoot lol I enjoy guitar thats all thats important to me.

Old Doll.

Why Blend in with the Crowd ? When you were made to stand out !

Re: Philosophical (and possibly stupid) question

Old Doll wrote:

I rarely play in front of strangers.

Family Yes ! I would be like MKM. i need my books and chords to get it right.. Yet, when the books are there in front of me,
I rarely use them.  Do I play Guitar ? Yes ! Am i a good guitar player ?. I would think not. Others say i am..
I couldnt give a hoot lol I enjoy guitar thats all thats important to me.

Old Doll.

I am with you Old Doll!  I enjoy for myself even if nobody else ever would.  I have been fortunate to have a few make some very positive comments about what I have done, but I keep it all in perspective as I began this journey as a retirement project to entertain myself and give myself something else to do.  Little did I know it would provide as much enjoyment to me as it has.  If it provides any entertainment to someone else, that is a blessing I was not counting on or aspiring to accomplish.  I merely tell anyone who is interested that I tinker around with it a little bit and enjoy doing so.  Like everybody else, I do enjoy positive feedback, even if it is just people be nice and polite.  The real idea for me is to just enjoy what you do!  Big Jim

Find a Path or Make One    This is a motto I have been following my entire life and one I am currently using with my music.
Big Jim from Ashville Ohio

Re: Philosophical (and possibly stupid) question

I don't think I am a guitar player but I play guitar to accompany a few folk songs .

And yes  Geo , it does put a smile on my face and I enjoy the heck out of "playing a bit"

Later, Wayne P

Re: Philosophical (and possibly stupid) question

wlbaye wrote:

I don't think I am a guitar player but I play guitar to accompany a few folk songs .

And yes  Geo , it does put a smile on my face and I enjoy the heck out of "playing a bit"

That's what it's all about cool

I used to be disgusted; now I try to be amused.
Elvis Costello

16 (edited by tubatooter1940 2010-06-08 10:23:46)

Re: Philosophical (and possibly stupid) question

It's a similar question to: Am I a man or a boy? or Am I a woman or a girl? We can claim to be something but the final definition is for others to decide.
If people hear you and remember you as a guitarist, then you are. They may remember me as a sucky guitarist and I must live with that.
I played in bar bands for 20+ years but I will never be anything but a strummer like many chordians. My lead rides were memorized note-for-note and played the same every night. BORING!
Since technical excellence is beyond me, I concentrate on being an entertainer. I learn unusual and novel songs that people rarely or never hear. I found work as a guitar player by being able to add to a party, playing most requests, making people laugh or cry and therin leave a wonderful memory of a particular evening.
Remember, Elvis Presley was a mediocre guitar player. So was Johnny Cash.

We pronounce it "Guf Coast".
Ya'll wanna go down to the Guf?

Re: Philosophical (and possibly stupid) question

Old Doll wrote:

I rarely play in front of strangers.

Family Yes ! I would be like MKM. i need my books and chords to get it right.. Yet, when the books are there in front of me,
I rarely use them.  Do I play Guitar ? Yes ! Am i a good guitar player ?. I would think not. Others say i am..
I couldnt give a hoot lol I enjoy guitar thats all thats important to me.

Old Doll.

Lena, I get the feeling that for you there are few strangers, but merely friends you haven't yet had the pleasure of meeting.  What a delight to have your gentle perspective on the boards.

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude

Re: Philosophical (and possibly stupid) question

Aah, Thank you kind sir.

You just brought the sunshine out for me.

Old Doll.

Why Blend in with the Crowd ? When you were made to stand out !