• Registered: 2008-05-29
  • Posts: 6

Topic: Playing and singing

I've been years learning to play, I'm not brilliant but I can strum a couple of dozen chords and love it! best thing I ever did. However, my ambition has always been to play and sing along to Cash, Dylan, Donovan type songs (I am very old!). I am not being vain, but have been told I have a good voice, very strong, but when I try to sing and play, the music always seems too highly pitched and I feel very uncomfortable trying to sing and my voice drys up. Are there any techniques for practising or if for example I get music from 'chordie' would it help going up or down a semitone or two?

  • From: Almancil, Algarve, Portugal
  • Registered: 2006-09-02
  • Posts: 6,205

Re: Playing and singing

Hi winrick and welcome to Chordie,

If the music is too highly pitched you will be straining your voice to sing to it. Use the transpose button at the right of the song to lower it to a key that both suits your voice and has chords that you can play. You should soon find out the key/keys that suit your vocal range.

Roger

"Do, or do not; there is no try"

Roger Guppy's Website

  • From: Tooele Ut
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 4,049

Re: Playing and singing

Yes, winrick, I sing pretty good too, but I have to transpose a lot of songs to sing them at a level I am comfortable with.  It works great.

You can see all my video covers on [url]http://www.youtube.com/bensonp1000[/url]
I have finally found happiness in my life.  Guitars, singing, beer and camping.  And they all intertwine wonderfully.
  • KajiMa
  • Senior Member
  • Offline
  • From: Glastonbury
  • Registered: 2009-03-24
  • Posts: 608

Re: Playing and singing

Hey winrick.

Something to invest in would be a good Capo (I use Kyser meself).

http://www.kysermusical.com/product_image.php?imageid=19

With a capo you can play the chords you know in a key that's more suitable for your voice. Unfortunately you can't use a Capo to downtune, but I've only ever found one song which I need a downtuning capo for.

<-----<< On an even field, only talent prevails! >>----->
   Gans Gwarak da yn dorn yu lel, gwyr lowen an golon!
        >>-----> [color=#FF0000]Rudhes[/color] hag [color=yellow]Owres[/color], Kajima <-----<<
  • upyerkilt
  • upyerkilt
  • Unofficial king of Scotland
  • Offline
  • From: Balloch, Scotland, UK, Earth
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 3,290

Re: Playing and singing

or try transposing and using a capo lol

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending
  • From: Independence, Mo
  • Registered: 2007-09-23
  • Posts: 233

Re: Playing and singing

A capo works great for me too. I also use kyser, and they make great capo's. I have a capo for each of my guitars so if I take one of my guitars with me I don't have to hunt down the one I was using on one of my other guitars! Love 'em!!!

A musician is someone with too much time on their hands! Thank god I'm a musician!!!

getfiddle's Website

  • KajiMa
  • Senior Member
  • Offline
  • From: Glastonbury
  • Registered: 2009-03-24
  • Posts: 608

Re: Playing and singing

Good grief getfiddle - that is so stupidly sensible and obvious, why didn't that occur to me?

Please don't answer that, merely bask in the glory that that is one of the best things I've come across since my mate Bill told me about the "Prussic Loop."

Good on yer! cool

<-----<< On an even field, only talent prevails! >>----->
   Gans Gwarak da yn dorn yu lel, gwyr lowen an golon!
        >>-----> [color=#FF0000]Rudhes[/color] hag [color=yellow]Owres[/color], Kajima <-----<<
  • From: Wales
  • Registered: 2009-01-09
  • Posts: 220

Re: Playing and singing

Well it's good to know your all good singers, I sound like a pack of dogs howling at feeding time!

What I have found tho is that playing alot of my songs with a capo on the first or second fret (mainly first) helps alot as the key is much more sympathetic to my howling!  I find using a capo far easier than transposing the chords to a suitable key, I have enough trouble playing a regular G without changing it to a Bmaj7b....or some other dodgy chord that requires 7 fingers!

Seriously tho, do any others find using a capo for a lot of songs easier?

Epiphone EJ200  -  Epiphone SG400  -  Fender Strat Blacktop.
Blackstar HT 40 Club  -  Vox VT30 - Behringer ACX ultracoustic 1000

crevs.1972's Website

  • From: Almancil, Algarve, Portugal
  • Registered: 2006-09-02
  • Posts: 6,205

Re: Playing and singing

A capo is an essential piece of kit. Although I prefer transposing chords to suit my voice there are two exceptions:

Songs I have played for years I find difficult to transpose as I tend to play them automatically so, without thinking, I revert to the orignal chords and can mess things up.

Some songs only sound right when played with certain chord shapes.

In these instances I will use a capo.

Roger

"Do, or do not; there is no try"

Roger Guppy's Website

  • From: East sussex, UK
  • Registered: 2008-01-29
  • Posts: 690

Re: Playing and singing

Probably because my voice doesn't have much of a range, I find that I have to fiddle around with most songs, to get them in the right key, in other words so that my voice is at it's most comfortable. Sometimes I have to transpose first, to get the easiest chords to play, then experiment with the capo until it sounds right. Just something you learn over time, unless you have a musical friend who can advise you!
Anyway, best of luck & welcome to Chordie!

" Old Guy is Rocking"
Simon & Patrick Pro Flamed Maple (mmm, nice...)
Norman ST68 acoustic
  • From: Renfrewshire, Scotland
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 1,359

Re: Playing and singing

I couldn't do without my capo. It's a cheap adjustable strap job I've had for about 20 years and it transforms me from one of crevs' howling dogs into more of an acceptable house trained mutt. I love the sound of open chords on the acoustic and my capo allows me to keep that most of the time. I have to admit to combining transposing and capoing(?) purely for finding easier chords.

Is anything really made up of zeros and ones??

alvee33's Website

  • KajiMa
  • Senior Member
  • Offline
  • From: Glastonbury
  • Registered: 2009-03-24
  • Posts: 608

Re: Playing and singing

Roger Guppy wrote:

A capo is an essential piece of kit. Although I prefer transposing chords to suit my voice there are two exceptions:

Songs I have played for years I find difficult to transpose as I tend to play them automatically so, without thinking, I revert to the orignal chords and can mess things up.

Some songs only sound right when played with certain chord shapes.

In these instances I will use a capo.

Roger

Yup!

<-----<< On an even field, only talent prevails! >>----->
   Gans Gwarak da yn dorn yu lel, gwyr lowen an golon!
        >>-----> [color=#FF0000]Rudhes[/color] hag [color=yellow]Owres[/color], Kajima <-----<<
  • From: The Land Of Song
  • Registered: 2007-12-10
  • Posts: 5,704

Re: Playing and singing

hi, i've been following this thread for a while to see where it went, and it's just got to a bit that i can join in to.

when i write a song i usually start quietly so my wife [in the other room watching coronation street or prison break] cant complain of the noise. so when i go to record the song, [when she's out at the bingo!] i go to give the vocals a bit of oomph and i usually find i have to change the key, which is a pain...so a capo helps especially if the chords are finger twisters!

i also use the capo if i want to double track the guitar. 1st track, left pan open chords E for instance. then capo on the 4th fret and play E in the C shape on the right pan. it gives a nice effect [i think so anyway]

phill

Ask not what Chordie can do for you, but what you can do for Chordie.

Phill Williams's Website

  • From: A black hole in deep space
  • Registered: 2007-10-28
  • Posts: 7,865

Re: Playing and singing

I agree with alvee a capo makes open chords sound great and I play a lot of moving phrases in conjuntion with a chord (walk down or up) also some fingerpicking arrangements sound really nice up further on the neck in open posistions smile

"Growing old is not for sissies"

Russell_Harding's Website

  • Zurf
  • Zurf
  • Blunt but well meaning moderator
  • Offline
  • From: Virginia, USA
  • Registered: 2007-06-27
  • Posts: 7,522

Re: Playing and singing

crevs.1972 wrote:

Seriously tho, do any others find using a capo for a lot of songs easier?

Undeniably and unquestionably YES!

Some songs sound better with a capo - for instance "Peace Train" in D just sounds a million times better playing it with a capo at the second fret (well, you know 'better' is a relative term).   "Peaceful Easy Feeling" - use the chords that are out there on Chordie for it but put the capo on the second fret and it sounds a whole lot better.

As far as matching my voice to the key - that would be really great if I could sing worth a darn, which I can't.  So frankly, I don't even try to match it up.  I just play and howl and if someone doesn't like it then they have some options available to them (such as distracting me with a shiny object to get me to stop, or going elsewhere, or drinking until I sound good).  My singing has been described best as tenor as in "your singing is best when it's tenor eleven miles away from me." 

- Zurf

Granted B chord amnesty by King of the Mutants (Long live the king).
If it comes from the heart and you add a few beers... it'll be awesome! - Mekidsmom
When in doubt ... hats. - B.G. Dude
  • henryb
  • Senior Member
  • Offline
  • From: Lhanbryde
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 204

Re: Playing and singing

Corrie , Prison something and  Bingo.what,s all this then.

  • upyerkilt
  • upyerkilt
  • Unofficial king of Scotland
  • Offline
  • From: Balloch, Scotland, UK, Earth
  • Registered: 2006-03-04
  • Posts: 3,290

Re: Playing and singing

I use my capo a lot too, even for songs I used to play open chords. I now think the guitar sounds better wit hthe capo on the 4th ( if I can get away wit hsinging a song from there)

And this has slightly went of topic a bit in a way.

I transpose a lot for singing instead of using the capo. sometimes I will tranpose and put a capo on, depending what the easiest chords are to play.
I used to transpose,use capo, or just not play a song when i saw a B chord or B7 but now I dont mind any chord.


Ken

ye get some that are cut out for the job and others just get by from pretending
  • KajiMa
  • Senior Member
  • Offline
  • From: Glastonbury
  • Registered: 2009-03-24
  • Posts: 608

Re: Playing and singing

upyerkilt wrote:

I used to transpose,use capo, or just not play a song when i saw a B chord or B7 but now I dont mind any chord.

Me too Ken, 'cept not B/B7 and not the last bit; I still avoid some chords, but mostly these are obscure/jazz/impossible-stretchers.

When I do learn songs these days I either learn songs I want to play that are relatively simple (recently "Heavy Horses") or I look for ones that I want to play that have one or two of these chords in them (e.g. Every Time We Say Goodbye - C#dim and St Matthews Passion/American Tune - plenty!) and congratulate myself heartily at succeeding and expanding my ability and play it in public as soon as possible.

The down side of this is that some of these less familiar chords become fingering patterns as part of a chord sequence that occur at certain places within the song and their name I forget as soon as I put the music down. Worth noting - I had to look up the name C#dim!!!

Lesson to be learned - the sooner one tackles the difficult chords the quicker one will become a good player (I just think I'm a bit better than competant! tongue )

As far as keeping your voice relaxed a good non-singing warm-up (I sometimes use this throughout a gig as and when needed) is to tilt your head back as far as possible and to grin/grimace to stretch the throat muscles (heaven only knows what the audience thinks of me when I do this, but whatever it takes!).

Be careful you don't strain your neck and the older you are the more gently/gradually you will have to do this!

<-----<< On an even field, only talent prevails! >>----->
   Gans Gwarak da yn dorn yu lel, gwyr lowen an golon!
        >>-----> [color=#FF0000]Rudhes[/color] hag [color=yellow]Owres[/color], Kajima <-----<<
  • From: Wales
  • Registered: 2009-01-09
  • Posts: 220

Re: Playing and singing

It’s not something I have ever thought about, when I started I just thought that I’d pick a song I like, learn the chords and words and away we go!  However in my book I have about 40-50 songs which I can play some shape, some are pretty simple with all open major chords and some are harder B’s, F’s 7’s etc.  I’ve also got a few very difficult ones which I use to practice certain chord changes.

Anyway, back on track, I find I can sing about 10 ok, about another 10 with a capo sound ok but about half are impossible for me to sing without uncontrollably changing the key throughout the song, much to the ammusement of the wife and kids!  My wife thinks I'm training to be a comedy guitarist like Les Dawson on his piano (for those of us in the uk). 

The thing is the songs I can't sing don’t sound as if they are difficult to sing and the ranges are ok but I keep drifting in and out of key on them.

But this is my point really, at which point do you have to say to yourself that no matter how many times you practice singing a particular song, your never gonna get it?  I mean with guitar playing it’s practice, practice, practice but is it the same principle with singing or are some of us doomed?

Epiphone EJ200  -  Epiphone SG400  -  Fender Strat Blacktop.
Blackstar HT 40 Club  -  Vox VT30 - Behringer ACX ultracoustic 1000

crevs.1972's Website

  • KajiMa
  • Senior Member
  • Offline
  • From: Glastonbury
  • Registered: 2009-03-24
  • Posts: 608

Re: Playing and singing

Yes you can improve - with provisos.

DON'T STRAIN YOUR VOX! You will cause permanent damage the older you get.

WARM UP YOUR VOX! Gently and quietly and build up.

WARM YOUR VOX DOWN! Same as athletes don't sit down as soon as the race is over.

AND OF COURSE keep adjusting the key until it's comfortable. Check the keys of the songs you are comfortable with and try the hard to sing songs in those keys. It doesn't always work (some songs use a higher register in the same key) but it's a good rule of thumb.

Me - mostly G/Em and most D songs go to E, but Eb is a good singers key (check out Paul Simon).

<-----<< On an even field, only talent prevails! >>----->
   Gans Gwarak da yn dorn yu lel, gwyr lowen an golon!
        >>-----> [color=#FF0000]Rudhes[/color] hag [color=yellow]Owres[/color], Kajima <-----<<
  • From: Wales
  • Registered: 2009-01-09
  • Posts: 220

Re: Playing and singing

Thank you all, this thread has been a great help and I guess it would be for any beginner who wants to sing along to their playing.

As my earlier post suggested, I’ve been struggling to sing quite a few songs because I can’t quite get the key right even though the range didn’t seem too far out for me.

Initially before this post I thought a capo was simply used to transpose the key of a song to the way it is “supposed† to be played as intended by the original artist.  I didn’t realise you could manipulate the key to suit your vocal range, I had simply never thought about it,  to busy practising the guitar I suppose.

Anyway, to the point; I went through my songbook last night and just sung the first verse and chorus of each song, I noticed that all songs which started with and predominantly stay close to E, F or G (plus minors obviously), I was able to sing ok, certainly ok enough to stop the local dogs howling in return! 
However I started to struggle on songs which start with and predominantly stay around on A and C (I don’t have that many with B’s but I’d assume they’d be in there too?), so I experimented with the Capo.  What I found was songs which start with and predominantly stay around A I needed to Capo on 2, and likewise C I needed to capo on 4. 
I concluded that these chords are a little high for me, but I’d have thought I’d  need to transpose down rather than up but I guess this is where harmony between certain notes and chords come into the equation.   
The funny thing was, songs which start with D seemed ok but I did run out of time so I rushed this.  However, this fits in with Kajima when he says most D songs revert to Em and E.

Is this a normal scenario?  I guess that A, B and C chords are not too high for me but simply don’t harmonise with my “howl† correctly??  If I sing these songs without a capo, the key of my voice wanders all over the shop until I settle at a pitch that sounds like Michael Jackson with his bits in a vice??

Cheers

Epiphone EJ200  -  Epiphone SG400  -  Fender Strat Blacktop.
Blackstar HT 40 Club  -  Vox VT30 - Behringer ACX ultracoustic 1000

crevs.1972's Website