• aabb
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  • From: MI
  • Registered: 2009-02-27
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Topic: Saddles- Bone?/Radius?/Compensation?

Do any of you players have a preference on saddle style or material?
   I used to make my own and was very happy with cow bone. Then when I made one from Fossil Walrus tusk.WOW What a difference. I made one from ebony once for a J50 Gibson. He liked it!
   If I'm finger picking,a radius matching the fret board's, doesn't seem to make much difference.    For flat picking, I get a more even volume with almost no radius.
   Most saddles are compensated for the 2nd string. I usually check all my strings and adjust if needed. More often than not they end up as follows.
   1st string crown-center of saddle
   2nd string crown-back towards string pins
   3rd & 4th strings- forward towards sound hole
   5th & 6th strings-back towards string pins
   To check a string for perfect intonation. Do a harmonic on the 12th fret,adjust tension to read zero on that note. Fret the same string gently on the 5th fret and see if that note reads zero. If it reads low, tighten just a little and re-check. You should be able to get both notes to read zero if the saddle is compensated correctly.

Ron
  • From: Frederick, MD
  • Registered: 2006-12-28
  • Posts: 851

Re: Saddles- Bone?/Radius?/Compensation?

I really like the graph-tec nuts.
I know that I abhor anything stock/plastic.

*shudder*

Dm

"Talent instantly recognizes genius,
but mediocrity knows nothing more than itself."

-Sir Arthur Conan-Doyle

Detman101's Website

  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2007-02-08
  • Posts: 1,914

Re: Saddles- Bone?/Radius?/Compensation?

Great post Ron!! My saddle material prefrences all depend on the acoustic in question and it's voice/tonewoods. I can't say that I have a favorite across the board.... My 4 Yairi's all have vintage bone saddles, my Pro Curly maple has the fossilized walrus ivory, The pro rosewood has plain old bone. Now on my acoustic electrics that have an undersaddle pickup I prefer Tusq saddles. It's a man made material very similar to bone but is more consistent in density and performs much better (IMO) with electronics than other materials. No worries about inconsistent sound transfer through the USP.

I'd like to add ,also, that if your setting your intonation to be sure and check the contact/release point of the nut slots as well as the saddle. It's often overlooked and I just wanted to mention it...-Pix

[b][color=#FF0000]If your brain is part of the process, you're missing it. You should play like a drowning man, struggling to reach shore. If you can trap that feeling, then you have something.
[/color][/b]         [b]Peace of mind. That's my piece of mind...[/b]

Guitarpix's Website

  • From: Almancil, Algarve, Portugal
  • Registered: 2006-09-02
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Re: Saddles- Bone?/Radius?/Compensation?

Guitarpix wrote:

I'd like to add ,also, that if your setting your intonation to be sure and check the contact/release point of the nut slots as well as the saddle. It's often overlooked and I just wanted to mention it...-Pix

Pix, I am not quite sure what you mean by 'the contact/release point of the nut slots' can you please explain.

Roger

"Do, or do not; there is no try"

Roger Guppy's Website

  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2007-02-08
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Re: Saddles- Bone?/Radius?/Compensation?

Roger Guppy wrote:

Pix, I am not quite sure what you mean by 'the contact/release point of the nut slots' can you please explain.

Roger

Hey Roger,

Sometimes when a guitar is new ,or has been serviced poorly, the nut slots are cut sloppily... or the guitar could have excessive wear at the nut... They should be cut at a slight angle so that the string loses contact with the nut at the very edge. If it's cut wrong or worn too much, the string can leave the nut from the middle or rear of the nut.  Most nuts are a little over 1/8 inch thick... So if the nut is off and the string loses contact at the rear, it essentially raises the scale length of that string by an 1/8 inch...  People that capo a lot on 1st or 2nd fret are more likely to have this problem, as the capo adds a lot of extra tension/wear to the nut. Plastic nuts are also quite prone to it... -Pix

[b][color=#FF0000]If your brain is part of the process, you're missing it. You should play like a drowning man, struggling to reach shore. If you can trap that feeling, then you have something.
[/color][/b]         [b]Peace of mind. That's my piece of mind...[/b]

Guitarpix's Website

  • aabb
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  • Registered: 2009-02-27
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Re: Saddles- Bone?/Radius?/Compensation?

Hi Dm,   I've never seen a "graph-tec nut". But I'll be watching for one.  smile  I made one out of ebony for a D35 once-it worked well.
 
  Hey Pix.  Yeah, I don't have one saddle material that sounds great on all my guitars either. Also thanks for mentioning the release point on the nut. It do make a difference, especially with a cheapo plastic.
  Speaking of nuts, it's a good idea to put a little graphite from a pencil in the string slots when changing strings for lubrication.

Ron
  • From: North Carolina
  • Registered: 2007-02-08
  • Posts: 1,914

Re: Saddles- Bone?/Radius?/Compensation?

Hey Ron,
I'm curious...I've never heard an ebony saddle before... How would you describe it's effects on tone as a saddle material. I would think that it would add a lot of bass, maintain mids and soften the highs a little... Is that about right? Does it hold up well? I'd be interested in trying it. -Pix

[b][color=#FF0000]If your brain is part of the process, you're missing it. You should play like a drowning man, struggling to reach shore. If you can trap that feeling, then you have something.
[/color][/b]         [b]Peace of mind. That's my piece of mind...[/b]

Guitarpix's Website

  • aabb
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Re: Saddles- Bone?/Radius?/Compensation?

Pix, it's been awhile since I've heard one. And it was on the same D35 that I made the nut for.
   The bone saddle has more sustain but the ebony was smoother sounding in the over all tone.The highs still had that bell ringing sound, the bass was not quite as booming but had plenty of power, the mids where toned down just a little. You know how sometimes when your tuning the 6th string and you pick it too hard the tuner will pick up the harmonic overtone and read a "B"? The ebony saddle seemed to lessen the overtones. The D35 has an ebony bridge so this probably comes into play to.  It did hold up well, it formed slight dents from the strings, but nothing like plastic.

Ron
  • Registered: 2007-01-29
  • Posts: 533

Re: Saddles- Bone?/Radius?/Compensation?

I have a Graph Tec on my Strat and have been really happy with it...  I've thought about having the nut and bridge saddle on my Martin Acoustic professionally replaced with a Bone. But I've heard that they are prone to breakage...any info or suggestions?

Middleaged Redneck sorta guy who refuses to grow up...passion for music, especially Southern Rock but like bout everything cept Gangsta/Hip Hop. Collect guitars, mandolins, and love to ride Harleys.
  • aabb
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Re: Saddles- Bone?/Radius?/Compensation?

jaygordon75
    I've not heard of nor have I had a problem with a bone saddle breaking,which doesn't mean it can't happen.  But if the crown of a saddle was to sharp I could see where there could be a problem. It could chip when you tune up as the winding is pulled across it. If it's professionally done there should be no problem. I've also had good results with bone string pins. You can get a set of bone string pins for under $20.00, install them next time you change strings. If your current ones are plastic that will make quite a difference.

Ron
  • Registered: 2007-01-29
  • Posts: 533

Re: Saddles- Bone?/Radius?/Compensation?

aabb...thanks for the info...I'll try that soon!

Middleaged Redneck sorta guy who refuses to grow up...passion for music, especially Southern Rock but like bout everything cept Gangsta/Hip Hop. Collect guitars, mandolins, and love to ride Harleys.
  • NELA
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  • From: West Monroe, La. 71292
  • Registered: 2007-11-28
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Re: Saddles- Bone?/Radius?/Compensation?

The local music store that I deal with provides all labor / materials ("TUSQ") to "bone" out a guitar for $65.00US. (strings extra) This includes nut, bridge, bridge pins, your choice of strings and a complete set-up. It usually take them about a day to complete everything and all work is professional grade. I also recommend, if you have been playing your guitar for a while, to have your frets inspected and dressed, as needed. If you play a lotta open chords you will have fret wear.

Nela

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  • aabb
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Re: Saddles- Bone?/Radius?/Compensation?

NELA     That's a good price to pay
   
" all labor / materials ("TUSQ") to "bone" out a guitar for $65.00US. (strings extra) This includes nut, bridge, bridge pins, your choice of strings and a complete set-up."

  "Tusq" is a trademark name for probably one of the highest grades of polymer ever engineered for a guitar. I wouldn't refer to it as bone though. If you "bone out " a guitar .  IT'S BONE! or it's not, "boned out"
  Tusq is better than any other man made material out there. It's also called man-made ivory. On some guitars for some styles I'm sure it can be better than bone. The choices are endless, what a world we live in!!

Ron