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Hi Saxman1510!

I did not know that! That is very reassuring. And I will stop worrying about what Key that song is in.

Your reply triggered a couple of other thoughts.

I knew about the trick of looking at the last chord - but it doesn't always seem to work. . . .

. . . Last week someone kept insisting that I ought to be ending a different song (another one that I have written) with the Chorus not a Verse.  I kept saying, "But it doesn't work - it doesn't sound right.".  I had not thought about why it did not work until now: the problem in that case is that ending on the Chorus would make the last chord an [E7] rather than a [C] and the song is in the Key of C.

Thinking about that incident made me wonder if people making their own arrangement to cover a song sometimes change the ending from a verse to a chorus, or vice versa, perhaps for "completeness" as in the case of my critic or perhaps to shorten a song? If so, then that might account for some of the times that the "last chord" clue is a red herring?

For the last year I have been writing songs with a friend who has a much better understanding of music theory than I do. (Typically, he produces all sorts of lovely chord progressions on the guitar and I then simplify the arrangement to within an inch of its life so that I can actually play it on a ukulele.)  When he is the one starting off a new song, he might not begin by deciding on a Key but he usually settles on one quite quickly, as it helps him to explore chord progressions beyond the obvious ones (major, minor and diminished) that are likely to "work", where and how to step out of key, etc.  Me, I remember about the major and minor chords, always forget about the diminished and the rest is still unexplored terrain!   

I think I am at the stage of my ear being ahead of my understanding because I can find chords that "work" without knowing why they work. Where my friend also has the edge on me is that while I might hit on a chord that "works" he will often immediately recognise that it is a bit "weak" and will suggest a "stronger" alternative that works even better.

Having said all that, when I have written a song without knowing what Key it is in, the main problems in practice have been:

1) When I am putting together a set list then I like to make sure that I include songs in different keys for variety.

2) Communicating with others in "pub sessions" where it helps to shout out the Key of a song so others can join in playing more easily.

3) When creating a song sheet, deciding how to name chords that I have "found by ear" when there are several possible names for a particular chord shape. Knowing the Key helps me to choose a fitting chord name.

(There is whole other can of worms lurking in that last point. Writing songs on guitar and ukulele at the same time, or on guitar and then arranging for ukulele, often results in ukulele chords with implied roots; naming them according to the shape minus the implied root note results in some apparently whacky chord sequences. It can sometimes make the vocals sound a bit "off" when the melody was on the root note too - sometimes in a good way; sometimes not so good, so I change the melody.)

Thank you again for replying. I hope that something in my reply was interesting or helpful to you - or to anyone else stumbling across this question,

Best wishes,

Liz

Newcastle upon Tyne, UK

Alfama - looks like they are already aware of the problem with mobile browsers:

Cannot add new material

I might just add a question to the bottom of that topic to ask if there is any news :-)

Best wishes,
Liz

Ha ha!!! As Roger Guppy well knows, I have UAS (Ukulele Acquisition Syndrome) - much cheaper!

Do people who play guitars use Chordie too? :-)

Good job I decided to take a stroll around some of the other Chordie sub-forums for a change - it's amazing what you find out!

(Hello again Cocktailsfor2 - I am not stalking you by the way!)

Cocktailsfor2: I hope someone way more geeky than me can answer your question!

I think that most of those effects would be to do with browser features.  The appearance of a web site can be modified with "user scripts", although I do not know if the last one (showing chord grids above the line) would be possible.  I use Firefox and have installed some site-specific user scripts but you can use them with other browsers.
Userscripts.org down for good? Here are alternatives

You can also make and customise a Site Specific Browser (SSB) on a desktop.  However, I don't know if you would be able to achieve all the results you are looking for. I used to use Fluid to set up SSB's.  (These days you would probably call a SSB an "app").
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Site-specific_browser

I think that what you would need to achieve what you are looking for is a dedicated "Chordie Viewer" (SSB) or "Chordie app".

There are "music score" apps that utilize PDFs and other document files that might do what you are looking for - but you would still need to add files to the app.

I have not come across anything that would do what you are looking for while you are browsing the Chordie website.  However, here are two web sites where you might find some leads if something like this already exists:
Going Digital for Musicians
and
Music App Blog

Do reply to let us know if you find anything!

Best wishes,
Liz

I use a free "Google site" with a page set up as a "Filing Cabinet":

https://sites.google.com/site/ukesforfu … landscape/

Liz

Hi Roger,

That's really nice and made me laugh :-)

I pop in every now and then when I have a question. Usually, someone has already asked the question and the answer is here waiting for me.  So I guess I am more of a lurker :-)

The overlap of the names of various programs and apps for saving chordpro format songs (Songbook, My Songbook, etc.) and the names of Chordie features causes so much confusion.  There even was, I have not checked if there still is, an app called "Chordie" which, of course, has nothing to do with this Chordie web site.

It strikes me that the usual need to constantly remind people that Chordie does not actually host songs adds to the confusion when people are asking how to import songs into apps. 

Not shouting at anyone - just for emphasis:
The fact that Chordie does not host songs is NOT relevant when it comes to these apps and programs.

So when people answer questions about apps with the reminder that Chordie does not host songs they are, sadly, not only wasting their own time answering but are also creating further confusion.  Please anyone reading this understand that I am NOT dissing anyone who has done this. It is just the truth :-)

Some of these apps, eg. the "My Songbook" app, even include a dedicated "Chordie Search Browser" as the default way to import songs.

I have only a vague idea of how these apps and programs work in terms of detecting chordpro format files to import. 

In the "My Songbook" iOS app you can edit the "search" function of the "standard non-Chordie" search engine.  I discovered that the search operators not only look for files with the extension ".pro", ".chopro", ".chordpro", ".txt" etc. but also look for files containing the Chordpro directives {t:} or {title:} and {st:} or {subtitle:} using a wildcard search between : and })

As Chordie does not host songs, when viewing a song on Chordie, the app must be following the url to where the song file is hosted and registering the characteristics of the file there.

It makes a LOT of sense that an app would include a dedicated Chordie browser as the Chordie web site is the first port of call for so many people looking for songs with chords. (I have added a dedicated "Chordie Search" to Firefox.)

Linkesoft Songbook does not include a dedicated Chordie browser, although some similar apps do.  In the iOS version of Linkesoft Songbook, the options are Google, Bing and "Other".  (I suspect that it would be possible for the user to make the "Other" option a dedicated Chordie Search Engine.)

Apologies if this suggestion should be made in another part of the forum, Roger, but while I have got your attenion here . . .

Questions and confusions about how all these apps and programs work in relation to Chordie are not going to go away but are likely to increase over time.  I would suggest that it might be helpful to corral these questions, move them out of this "About Chordie" sub-forum and invite some specialised help in dealing with them.

Suggestions:

1. Make a "Sub Forum" in the "Chordie" Section of the Forum, under "About Chordie", and call it something like, "Chordpro apps and programs" or "Chordie apps" with a subtitle, if a subtitle is an option: "eg. Songbook, On Song,  Songsheet Generator, etc.".

2. Invite program and app developers to become members of this forum and submit information about how their products interact with the Chordie web site and how users can import individual songs and Public Songbooks (or not and why not) with a link to their own "Help" pages or contact pages.

3. Make these posts "Stickies" within the "Chordie apps" subform and encourage the developers to subscribe to them, so they are alerted to new questions and can, if they choose, visit the forum to provide answers.

4. Include a "top sticky" or info stating that you invite other developers to contribute in a similar way as new products come to market.

I have corresponded with several of the developers when I have had questions and they have all replied promptly and helpfully.

All these programs and apps are similar.  However, they differ enough in functionality, in their user interfaces, terminology for operations and the labelling of "buttons" that a question about one app that is answered with reference to another app can be misleading and cause even more confusion.

I hope that suggestion is helpful - I have contributed more in the last 24 hours than in the last 24 months and more, so you might not hear from me for a while now :-)

Best wishes,
Liz

One way to get at the chordpro in Chordie on an iPhone/iPad or other mobile/smart phone is:

1) Find the link right at the bottom of a song page to "add comments/video/corrections".

* You need to log in to Chordie to use this, so register with Chordie if you have not already done so. (Mmmmm . . . is it the same as registering for this forum? I can't remember.)

2) select to "correct" the song (even though you only want to copy it, not correct it)

3) this reveals the chordpro-formatted text in a smallish text box

4) "select all" then "copy"

5) cancel the "song edit" text box or just close the window to cancel

6) "paste" the chordpro-formatted text wherever it is you want the stuff to go.

Another way is to use a dedicated app for managing chordpro-formatted songs and song libraries.

If you are using an iPad/iPhone app to manage your song files, some of these apps automatically show you the chordpro-formatted text rather than the "rendered" web page and you can import the chordpro-formatted text directly into the app.

Some of the apps are designed to search Chordie directly for chordpro-formatted songs and/or search for them using Google. Using one of these apps makes it a lot easier to find, import and edit songs as well as manage your collection of songs.

Hope this is helpful - please anyone leap in and correct me if I have made any errors!

Best wishes,
Lizzie

Definitely still the best! Happy Birthday and so many thanks for making and maintaining Chordie xxxxx

Many thanks for all the comments :-)

The song I was working on was "Sweet Dreams" by The Eurythmics (also covered by Marilyn Manson). 

The version that says "capo on the 3rd fret" doesn't seem to be accessible via Chordie any more but from what I have said in my first post, the key would have been [Em] but with "capo on the 3rd fret" in the notes, taking it to [Gm] - which sounds dreadful on a gCEA uke! (ie. played as [Gm] without a capo)

I am guessing that everyone who has replied will know the following already, but for any new readers who don't know this already . . .

- GCEA strung uke, eg. a tenor uke, is like a guitar with a capo on the 5th fret - but missing the two "fat, deep strings" (sorry, I know bugger-all about guitars!)

- a gCEA uke (eg. soprano, concert) is similar except the g string is an octave higher.

The current versions of "Sweet Dreams" via Chordie are in [Cm] - which I think sounds awful on a gCEA uke, eg. http://www.chordie.com/chord.pere/www.g … 20351.html

This version in [Em] is in my Chordie Songbook and from the url it looks as if I have used the Chordie renderer myself and it is not accessible via Chordie Search (and it doesn't mention a capo):
http://www.chordie.com/chord.pere/?url= … ranspose=0

That one is the version I learned on a gCEA uke. When picking, I play [Em] this way 0-4-0-2.  Chordie renders [Em] like that but most uke players use 0-4-3-2.  When strumming I switch between the two versions and that gives a nice effect.

On the tenor uke, GCEA, where I would pick an open g on the smaller ukes, I need to pick the E string, fretted at the 3rd fret, to get the high g because the open low G sounds rubbish there.

The only version I could find now citing "capo on the 3rd fret" is this one, in [Am], taking it to [Cm] again:
http://www.guitarsongs.info/ROCK/euryth … dreams.htm

IMHO, on a uke, this song sounds fine in [Am] and [Em], quirky-so-so-mmm-not-sure-about-it in [Dm], rubbish in [Cm] and [Gm] and I won't even attempt [Bm] and [Fm]. (Flats and sharps? The only one I always have a peek at is [F#m], because it's dead easy on the uke and sounds lovely, but not for this song.)

I like [Em] to pick and sing "Sweet Dreams" it as it makes a nice "medley sandwich" with "Sweet Dreams" as the bread and "People are Strange" in [Em] as the filling.

As a "stand-alone" song on the gCEA uke, [Am] is easiest for strumming - with the usual uke-cheat of playing easy [E7] instead of nasty [E].

I have got better at playing since I first posted my question - as you'd hope! Although I am still pretty rubbish at bar chords.

Something that has helped is playing along at a session where most of the other instruments are guitars. I normally use a uke capo to mirror what the guitarist are doing, so that I only have to do one transposition in my head. However, another uke player pointed out to me that if the guitarists have their capos on the second fret then they are usually playing in [A] so I have started not using a capo on the 2nd fret when they do and been transposing to "uke + 2 semitones" in my head! Just recently, my brain started to do that nice thing where it performs the double-transposition in one mighty leap and shoots the results down into my hands as if by magic :-) Only for 2nd fret capo songs in [A] so far but it's a start.

Sometimes the background, "tinkly" sound of a picked uke with a capo makes a nice contribution to a strummed "guitar song" with a capo on a higher fret, eg. 4th.

As far as using the capo to change the key to suit the singer's voice is concerned . . . the uke is already so high that I have never done this, I just change the key and if I can't find a key that I can both play and sing then I have ditched the song ;-( Maybe I should try using a capo when that happens, to see if it might work OK with some songs.

I haven't recorded how I play Sweet Dreams yet but when I do I will post a link here as a "thank you" for all the help and comments.

Finally, there is an interesting discussion here about using the capo on the 3rd fret of a guitar:
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/foru … p?t=136831

Best wishes,

Lizzie

There is a "search" feature under the list of Public Songbooks on the left of this page: http://www.chordie.com/publicbooks.php