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Hello Southpaw41L

You are absolutely right in what you say.

Singing is an art.  And in my opinion, concentrating on breathing simply gets in the way of the art.  Because it focuses on a technical skill that should work naturally.  Concentrating on the breathing, especially in a way where one is NOT actually singing is moving the art into science. 
In my humble, but learned opinion:
All forms of singing require the same basic breathing ability.  (With some exceptions eg. classical---things we don't do in pop/rock/folk or jazz music.)  But for the most part, we all have the same apparatus and when it's working naturally and correctly, it works the same in all of us regardless of what we're singing.  It's just that the different styles of song cause each of us to use this ability differently.  When I sing "More Than Words" or "I'll Be Watching You", I don't use the skill in the same way as when I'm singing "My Funny Valentine", but that does not mean that I need to learn two different techniques of breathing.  Just a different style of singing.  With one style one would maybe use more chest-voice in the mix; the other one might use a lighter head-voice. Or both combined.  But that is not controlled by the breathing.  It's controlled through the vowel.   

And that's where the fun begins.  That's where the artistic field opens wide up.  Because you get to think about how to interpret a word or phrase.  Whether to make it sad or angry or happy...   And see what kinds of sounds you get.  It is so much fun!  But the breathing should just come along naturally to support it.  I have learned by my own experience that this should not be learned separately.

Name any singer who sounds great, and you'll hear an instinctive use of vowels. And please don't think that I sing something like "Piece of My Heart" like an opera singer.  Ooooooo...   that would be pretty scary,  He he he....  I am not a classical singer.   Never was... Grew up on Procal Harem, Janis Joplin, Grace Slick, Led Zeppelin...  I just wanted to sing this music but I didn't want to ruin my voice the way SOME of them did....  Look at Robert Plant for example, even two months ago(live concert I heard), he still sounds like he's 25 years old!  Listen to his diction.  His vowels.  You can say that he breathes properly, but that wouldn't happen without a relationship to vowels.

If a blues singer sings a word in a song that sounds so great, it's because he or she played with the vowel.  "Turned the WORD around in his/her mouth in an interesting way".  That's about art.  I talked about this in an earlier message that is somehow no longer there. (Doesn't matter. I must have I forgotten to  press "submit".)

For example, Aretha Franklin had this great way of throwing a vowel around in her mouth that gave her this signature double vibrato.   It was big fun figuring out how she did that.   But I didn't figure it out through breathing.  I figured it out by figuring out, "What is SHE doing?"   ----  playing with a vowel...
(I used to be a jobbing singer--only for money--good money!) and I would do a set where in one song I had to sing it just like Diana Ross; next song-just like Bonnie Raitt, then Aretha,  then backup for WHAM (ohmygod) or a Joe Cocker song, or Janis Joplin, then Whitney Houston. Then somebody wants to hear something from America or Jefferson Airplane.   Can't do all that without knowing how they make their sound.  In this work, one learns about vowels.  Got NO time to think about breathing.

Learning breathing is like learning to ride a bike.  Sometimes you just want to cruise slowly; sometimes you want to ride fast and furious; sometimes you want to pull wheelies, and bank off ramps (that requires some special training).  But the ability to balance oneself on the bike and ride without falling and hurting oneself is something we learn naturally.   I never tried to steer my advice in the direction of cutting out the ART of singing and concentrating on the science of singing.   I am steadfast against this.  Maybe you misunderstood what I said in a previous post.   (Recordings will support me.)

In fact I mentioned that if one is having intonation trouble, it's probably not the breathing.  (Although some other problem is getting in the way of the natural breathing ability. It's a reciprocal event.)   So think about something else; ie, key. 

Usually one needs to fix the vowels, (or posture, which I didn't mention, I think. Bad posture makes it hard for the body to support the sound).  Sometimes fixing the key will fix the vowels because they're easier to sing when they don't always land on a break. 

AND I don't think this way, because professors told me that.  I have learned this from dragging through this quagmire of voice training that it's better to find the answers myself.   I simply naturally rejected the notion of "breath exercises without tone" long ago. I just happily found that in the last 15-20 years, that most professors don't support it either.

And also, not all voice professors are classical. Mine weren't.  But I DID work under one long ago who told me that I have to teach my students to train their diaphragms not to collapse.   Huh?  I asked three doctors about this and each one laughed and said:  "If that happens, you would stop breathing and die!"   

Come on, you gotta find that funny!

In most universities around the world (I'm talking pop/folk/rock/jazz departments), they simply don't teach breathing without tone anymore.   It's just a fact.  A wonderful fact because I always thought it was nonsense, anyway.  (But lots of private and Music School teachers still buy into it, mostly because they're afraid not to...  or they don't know anything else.  Or they learned it from their teachers, but don't realize that they really learned it on stage, or through the songs they had to sing.....  so they keep on teaching it...  mostly out  of insecurity...   REALLY... sadly, this is true!)

If you compare the voice to a car, the vowel is the steering wheel.  We don't concentrate on how the gas gets from the tank in back, up front to the motor.  We concentrate on keeping on the road. And we work the gear shift, gas, breaks, and clutch naturally--hopefully.  If you're having trouble with shifting gears, then concentrating on how the gas gets to the motor is kinda pointless because that's the CAR's function.  You have to learn to coordinate your feet and arms.   And you won't succeed if you concentrate on how the gas gets to the motor. 

With voice, we coordinate the use of throat and abdomen muscles---diaphragm knows its job;    If somehow it doesn't.... better not go to sleep!

My opinion is, forget about the breathing.  Do exercises that turn the breath support on naturally.   We were breathing naturally and correctly for singing already, without training, when we were babies...   In fact, voice training is all about removing the problems we build in as we grow up, and try to come back to this natural ability.

This is what I said in the first place....

Before you write this attitude off, try it.   One should sing some song that one always sings, and try different, let's say, "accents".  See how the voice changes. See how the  breathing ability adjusts itself.  If something doesn't work, one can try something else.   'We artists are full of ideas, aren't we?  We can go on forever until we find something that works.  If not, then something else is wrong...

It's all in the vowel.  If you sing ugly vowels, your voice won't be too pretty, and you'll have trouble with intonation.  The vocal chords only make what's called, the "start of the sound".   Your job as a singer is to manipulate the energy that is created (use head resonance or bring in the chest, if you want.)  But this is all controlled through the vowel.  They say the vocal muscles are controlled twice-indirectly.   We control what they do by the vowel we use.  The vowel is controlled by feeling.  Sing a happy "Ah", sing a sad "Ah".... they both sound different, using different resonance because of what YOU do with the sound energy in your mouth.
Sing "Ehhh" when you think you're singing "Ah", well.... expect some untidy results.  T

(They say the best invention for musical development is the TAPE RECORDER. Singers can't hear themselves.  Only the audience can hear how we really sound. We must rely on how it feels.)  I remember when I was recorded at 16 years old and was surprised at the vibrato I was always hearing about.  Hmm...  Also heard some bad notes too.   Woke me up...

There is always a vowel inside a vowel.  What we actually do when we change a vowel, is to insert a vowel within.   When you sing acoustically, this second vowel is  heard by the audience as some feeling.  But the microphone picks up the vowel within the vowel.  (I worked in a university that studied this)  A singer who understands this, can manipulate the hell out of it and have BIG fun.   (Ever sang a word in a song that gives you--and your audience goose bumps?)  Some singers who don't know this get by thru instinct and do well.  Other singers think technically and try to work muscles---painful and boring for her/him and the listener.  Singers who record themselves a lot develop a natural relationship with vowels because they hear what's going on inside their mouth.  Some understand it; some don't.  Doesn't really matter if the relationship is there.

There is also the question of KEY.   Are you singing in a key that is good for your voice?

My experience with guitar player/singers or singers who work with guitar players is that they have to work in the key the guitar player can play.  Ok, there's capo, but what if the key has to come down?   Or if the key sounds like shit on guitar?  Then the singer has to deal with an unlucky key...

One person commented here already that even 1/2 tone can make a difference.  That is SOOOO true.  Because it has to do with where the breaks are in your voice.   If you have to sing a melody where most notes occur on your break, the song won't be much fun to sing, and will sound like it.  (But sometimes this difficulty is interpreted as "so sad" or "so angry", and that can be good for the singer's career.  (Listen to Joe Cocker.  That guy was usually in pain.  But the audience ate it up.  But then, he had more troubles than keys, but I digress...)

Try different keys.

One thing I can definately say:   if you enjoy your voice, if it makes you feel good to sing, then you're doing a lot right.

Intonation is usually a key or vowel thing.  If you've got these things in order, you don't need to worry about breathing.  You were doing it right when you were born.  At 1 year old you had a voice that could surpass all these problems.  NEVER try to learn breathing without making some kind of tone.  It's pointless.  You don't breath the same while singing as you do when you're not.  (Ex: Yoga breathing, which is silent), so anything you try, make sure you're making a sound.  "Me me me me" in middle voice.  Or "oiy-oiy-oiy"  or "nay nay nay" as long as you can.  You'll feel the abdominal muscles come in without ANY effort on your part.  (Such an exercise requires that either the tongue or lips are constantly moving... ) You'll see: It just happens naturally....

Please don't get caught up in "breathing" exercises.   It's pointless.  Sing vertically--not horizontally, and you'll save yourself from nodes..

THIS I KNOW!  I've been teaching this stuff for half my life.

Good luck!

What's the difference between a dead trombonist on the road and a dead raccoon?
---The raccoon was probably on his way to a gig.

How can you recognise the son of a trombonist in a playground?
He can't swing and he's afraid of the slide...

I'm not picking on trombonists.  It's just that most of the other jokes I know are already posted.

A pianist was hired for two nights in hotel lounge.  They tell him he has to use a singer, so he hires one.
They play through the first night and, when they start the first song of the second night, the pianist tells her:
"Ok, let's do it this way: sing the first four bars normal.  Then, jump up a minor third and sing the next three
bars in that key.  Then come down a major second and sing there for the next 8 bars. On the last bar of the
bridge, add one beat.  Then go into 3/4 time for 6 bars, jump up a minor 2nd, and finish the last two bars in
4/4 and in the original key."
Singer is upset.  How am I supposed to remember all that?  I can't do it!
Pianist says, "Why not? You did it last night..."

That was dumb.  Forget the cow, forget the bell.  That leaves the pattie.  Really dumb.

If something "pops" into your head, it's probably a good idea.  Think about a theme and let the lines fall around it. What I mean is that good songs write themselves. You're just holding the pen.  And it doesn't always come at once.  Some songs can take a few minutes; some a few weeks, etc.... 

A lot of stuff I've written began with lines that end up in the middle of the song, at the end, or maybe the first line.  Keep a notebook and write EVERYTHING down 'cause the best ideas are gone very quickly after they come to you.  Always trust you inspiration.  You know how they say, "be yourself".  It's like this with lyric writing.  If an idea comes to you, it's yours, and that's what you must follow. And remember, it might only sound silly to YOU.  I had a lot of experiences where I'm improvising with some guys 'cause we have to write something for someone, and I sing something that I think is silly, but the other guys say, "That's great. Let's use it".

Having the chord progression worked out definitely makes it easier.  Then noodle around with a melody.  Very often, you'll find words falling on the notes you sing.

Hope this helps.  Good luck.

I once had a T-shirt, when I lived in Canada. 

On the front it said:
                                   "If it ain't live, it's jive"
On the back it said:
                                   "Hire a band" 

My boyfriend (at that time) expropriated it, and has had it ever since.

My humble opinion fully agrees with your humble opinion. Practicing=OK. PERIOD.

Hey, I just read back your message and thought of a joke.  Don't know if someone already made it, or if I just thought it up, but here goes:

How do you kill a whole band in 1 second? .........       .....pull the plug...  ha ha ha

(Must be an old joke, must be.....)

Welcome to Chordie, Zurf, from a Canadian in Berlin.  /Ginger

Ha! Roger, just don't tell me your middle name is Fred....

John Sebastian from the "Lovin' Spoonfull"  made a series of shows about the history of rock and roll, and in one of the episodes, he concentrated on one-hit wonders.  There were a lot of them.  I can't remember them though; it's hard to
remember band names when they were only famous for one song.   I do seem to remember one he mentioned: Gloria Gaynor, who's only hit was "I will survive". 

"In The Year 2525".  I remember that one.  I liked the harmonies.

Another one from the Beach Boys: Not exactly sure of the title ....  (gee, I'm pretty vague, aren't I)
"and she'll have fun fun fun till her daddy takes her T-Bird awaaaaay"
(When I was a real little kid, my older cousin was in a Beachboys cover band)

Boy, this is fun!  There must be a million songs about cars.    Groucho Marks sang a song about a certain brand of cars
as an advertisement for his show "You Bet Your Life", but I don't remember the car.  Definately not an Edsel.

There was another one by a girl group, I think late fifties.  "Huggin' and kissin' with Fred"
"keep your mind on your driving, keep your hands on the wheel.  da da da da keep your eyes on the road ahead.
We're having fun, sitting in the back seat, huggin' and kissin with Fred"  (Lyrics went something like that.)

Wait, here's another one: Don't know who sang it (Bobby V, or Vinton, one of those guys)  It's about losing his girlfriend
in a car accident.  "the crying tires, the busted glass, the painful scream that I heard last.  Oh where oh where can my
baby be? The lord took her away from me.  She's gone to heaven so I've got to be good, so I can see my baby when
I leave this world"  I think the title is in there somewhere.

What was that song by the Beatles... It was supposed to contain a clue about Paul McCartney dying  "...he blew his mind out
in a car.  He didn't notice that the light had changed..."

Oops! another one:  instrumental with no text, but the title is clear "Back-seat Betty" by Miles Davis.

"Mustang Sally"    !!!!!!  James Brown???? Wilson Picket???? (if I'm wrong here, I blame it on advancing AGE)

"New York State Of Mind"   Billy Joel   (fancy cars and limousines...)

"Pink Cadillac"  I only know the Aretha Franklin version (80's)

"Big yellow Taxi" Joni Mitchell

"Complicated"  Avril Lavigne  (Canadian)  "da da... riding in your car"

"No Scrubs" by TLC  "A scrub is a guy who can't get no love from me, hangin' out the passenger side of his best friends'
ride (car), trying to hollar at me"

Oh, also!  It's not about cars--motorcycles--so it probably doesn't count:  "Leader Of The Pack"  - but that opens up a whole new ballgame:
"Born To be Wild" etc.  Great cruising song.  Lovely melody.

Boy, just think, if someone who's famous could sue you for writing a song about them, then George Bush would be putting a LOT of people in jail.

Great car song:  Radar Love.  (Don't remember the band off the top of my tired head)
Chicago, Blood Sweat And Tears, Dobbie Bros, Pink (strange heh?)  are also inspiring.
Anything that has a good beat and MOVES.  Of course, the trouble is that it can cause "lead foot" which, while
I was living in Canada, was a big problem because of the speed limits.  But, here in Germany where there are
no speed limits on open highways, you can roll, and when necessary, lighten up your foot without the aid of a patrol car.
And I also feel better in a big solid car.