If it's just two guys with acoustic guitars in a quiet bar, the 200W setup would probably work fine.  If you've got two Les Pauls going along with a bass, vocals, and drum kit in a busy bar, you will need considerably more power in order to be heard.

I'd start at 1000W minimum for what you've described, and double that if you can afford it.   The thing about volume is the louder you get, the more power it takes to get even louder.  It's not a linear thing, it's logarithmic.   So it takes an order of magnitude more power to get from loud to really loud.

And Joey makes an excellent point.  Used deals can be had everywhere.  Craigslist is your friend here.  Just check the retail price of anything you might buy (scammers on Craigslist?  Nowai!) to be safe.

200 watts isn't going to be enough for a bar for a full band, particularly if they're playing amplified guitars.   1000 watts is about where I'd start, I think.  More if I have passive monitors.
 
The Phonic is nice, too, but you can put together a bigger system on the cheap if you want, and then grow it according to need.

Amazon has these...

Mixer for $200 (I own this one and will vouch for it's quality)

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-X1222US … amp;sr=1-4

1400W 2 channel (to power mains and monitors) amplifier $125

http://www.amazon.com/Pyle-PTA1400-Prof … amp;sr=1-1

2 500W speaker mains @ $65 each ($130)

http://www.amazon.com/PYLE-PRO-PADH1079 … mp;sr=1-52

2 600W stage monitors @ $60 each ($120)

http://www.amazon.com/PYLE-PRO-PASC12-T … mp;sr=1-12

Total cost for a complete 1400W 16x2 system around $600 after cables and taxes.  This kind of setup is expandable and configurable.  The drawback is that it's a PITA to haul around. 

You can always upgrade different parts if you want to.  These speakers can handle a total of  2200W RMS, so you can upgrade the amp without having to re-buy speakers but if you think you want bigger, spend a little more and get some more headroom on your speakers.  Or you can just keep the volume down a bit.  smile

That Yamaha setup is sweet.

679

(39 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

I'm a Christian, and I'll state categorically that "Christian music" (or any form of "Christian only" entertainment) downright sucks.  It's horrible.  The only exceptions are southern gospel and bluegrass spirituals.

So if you don't look like this

http://transformationthurrock.com/Images/content/888/303706.jpg

or this

http://ethnomusicologyreview.ucla.edu/sites/default/files/emr_file_repo/bill_monroe.jpg

God has asked me to inform you that you should just keep on with the heathen music and play some Skynard, man.

There's a lot of options out there and how you want to mix.  We play a lot of bars and smaller venues so we generally only mic the vocals and allow the guitar amps to do the work.  That makes mixing a bit more of a pain but it means easier setup and tear down.

If you're looking for expandability (more mic inputs), I'd get a separate amplifier and mixing board.  That will let you mic multiple guitars and drum kits if you want.    If you are looking for something small purely for vocals there are a lot of "all in one" setups that are portable (Fender Passport, etc...) that will give you enough inputs to power two or three mics.

The other thing to consider when you go to a PA system is you will need stage monitors, too.  As soon as you start blasting through that thing, you aren't going to be able to hear squat on stage and will need something to keep track of each other.   We use passive floor wedges but they suck.  I just bought a couple of 600W Pyle powered amps to use for that, and I'm very happy with them.  I'd like to go to in-ear, but that is just more setup.  What I really want to do is play more venues that have their own sound system.  smile

Wattage is kind of like horsepower in boats, too.  You can't have too much, so get as much as you can.

681

(23 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

Zurf wrote:
jerome.oneil wrote:

I'm still uncertain if the younger one will live to see 14.

This reminds me of a joke.  Q: Why did God tell Abraham to sacrifice Isaac on his 12th birthday?  A: Because if God had waited until he was 13 it wouldn't have been a sacrifice.

That one is going into the portfolio.  smile

682

(23 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

Astronomikal wrote:
jerome.oneil wrote:

I'm still uncertain if the younger one will live to see 14.

I'm sure she will, but I would bet it would help your cause more than you know if you enlist the help of your PhD candidate.  If you think the dynamic is right, let her kick your 13 year old's ass for a while.  Your 13 year old will probably relate to her more than she does you.

When I was 13 years old, my father was the stupidest man I had ever met.  By the time I was 21, he was pretty smart, and now that I'm almost 50, I realize he was a genius.

Well, when the Ph.D candidate was 13, I was uncertain if she was going to live to see 14, too.  Kids (especially girls) go through phases.  It's normal for them to be complete hormonal little bastards.   The trick is to not let them hurt themselves while they figure out that you really are looking out for their best interests.  No child ever learned a single thing from someone else's mistakes.  All you can do is prepare them to deal with the outcomes, and hopefully teach them to look ahead so learning by doing isn't the only way they figure things out.

My son (the "disabled" kid) figured that out when he was about five.  Girls take about another 20 or so years, in my experience.

683

(2 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

I'm about to add a 3TB drive to my router.  Don't know how much music that is, but I'll find out.

684

(23 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

I have two daughters and one severely autistic son.   My son is the normal one.   My youngest girl is just entering those dark years.   My oldest is out of them and now thanks me for "kicking her in the ass and letting me make my own mistakes."

The oldest is chasing a Ph.D now so she turned out alright.  I'm still uncertain if the younger one will live to see 14.

685

(8 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

When I was a kid, my dad listened to both kinds of music.   As a kid, of course I hated it.  Now that I am old and have turned into my old man, I can see the wisdom of his ways, and also prefer both kinds of music.

Country and punk.

(Dad was old school, and preferred the *other* two kinds of music.)

686

(8 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

I'm going to go with "I Think I'll Drink a Beer."

687

(3 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

It's a brilliant idea, but what Zurf said is true.  Chordie already skates on the edge of copyright law (why it's a search engine and not a hosting site), and I think that would probably push it over the edge.

688

(19 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

I'm simply looking at it from a spreadsheet standpoint.  They actually had closer to a full billion in debt, $850 million of which was collateralized, meaning it was backed by something.  In this case, that was the assets of the business, including cash in worker pension funds.  This is where the union had issues. 

Only $185 million was accrued towards pension payouts.

All union bashing/praising aside, this is simply a matter of accounting.

689

(19 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

The unions didn't borrow $700 million dollars.  This is a managerial "failure," (and by that I mean "completely successful takeover") and is pretty common with these kinds of hedge funds.

Borrow a ton of money.  Distribute the money to executives rather than fund operations and expansion.  File bankruptcy.  Profit (for hedge fund managers)!

It should be illegal, but it's not.

690

(19 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

$700 million in debt killed Twinkies.

Someone (Kroger, most likely) will buy the brand.  Twinkies will be around for a long time.

691

(25 replies, posted in Recording)

Russell_Harding wrote:

Thanks Phill nice to hear from you again,I sent my MS16 back it cost me 14 bucks for shipping so lets see.. they cost me 79 dollars minus 14 that means I will be getting a refund of 79 but in reality 65 dollars live and learn I just have to bite the bullet on this one the MS16's need a separate sub woofer to sound good so back to the drawing board I am going to see what guitar center has I am calling them because they have a location about 20 miles away they may have some good used recording monitors hopefully Rockit or Beheringer Truth let ya know smile

Guitar center pro-audio spaces are great for testing this stuff out.  Tell them you're looking for a pair of studio monitors, and they'll run a signal through a whole bunch of different ones so you can compare.

692

(25 replies, posted in Recording)

Russell_Harding wrote:

The speakers I really want I will have to wait for at least till next month they  are Behringer "Truth" with a 8" woofer they cost a few hundred dollars I think the MS40 model will be more then adequite and Jerome I purchased the DVD Battleship and loved it very entertaining and a feel good ending,regarding the speakers I think it is really the headphone set I am useing the Sonys i have are over 20 yrs old time to upgrade smile

When I was buying my KRKs, I looked hard at the Truth 2031s.  They sounded fantastic and provided a bit better low end response than the KRKs I finally settled on.     They're good kit.

And Battleship was a freaking awesome movie.

693

(25 replies, posted in Recording)

Just a word on monitors.   If you are using them for mixing, rather than casual listening, I wouldn't get anything that required a subwoofer, or did any other tone shaping at all.   When you're mixing, you want to hear what was recorded with as much fidelity as possible.   If your monitors are acting like commercial speakers and pumping up the bass, your final mix is going to be colored by those speakers.

What makes good mixing monitors is a neutral response curve.   That way if the bass is thin, you'll know it, rather than having that hidden by them.

694

(25 replies, posted in Recording)

Russell_Harding wrote:

smile Jerome nice video of you in Seattle smile

richeverman wrote:

Russel- got those new Behringer MS16 powered studio monitors.  Anxious to know how they sound!

Ha!  My whole family was giving me crap about that.  I spoke to the reporter for about a minute going on about government intrusion into persons homes, etc...  and they broke it down to "(so) if I want to sit in my house and smoke pot all day I should be able to do that."

big_smile

695

(31 replies, posted in Recording)

Lolz...   I bought this one, but it didn't help either.

http://www.ajoyfulministry.com/temp/Talent_Pedal.jpg

696

(31 replies, posted in Recording)

Each of the strips will have their own volume.  That is usually a slider but on your model it's just a knob.   That controls the level (a.k.a. the volume) going to the "main" mix, which is controlled with the "main" knob on the bottom right of the mixer's panel.  That one controls the overall volume of the total mix.

But I guess I should ask what you are using to record with?  Are you using just the webcam software?   It may only be picking up a mono signal while the mains will be outputting in stereo.  That would effectively cut your levels in half.

When you record, you want to turn the main up as loud as you can.  You might try turning off the "2 trks to main" button as well.   Try a couple of different things.  Record some audio and turn the track strip levels up and down, and then leave it high and turn the mains up and down as well.

697

(10 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

Busted a bass string on the first song once.  Had to run back to the house for the other bass.

It now comes along with us on every gig.  Paranoia doesn't mean they really aren't out to get you, after all.

698

(25 replies, posted in Recording)

richeverman wrote:

Russel- got those new Behringer MS16 powered studio monitors.  Anxious to know how they sound!

As am I.  I just bought a new Audio-Technica turntable (old school!) and need something to run the audio through.  They looked small enough not to be intrusive in the office, but I am curious about how they sound.

699

(31 replies, posted in Recording)

So the recording is happening (you can hear it through regular speakers), but you aren't getting any playback through the Alesis?

Is that a correct summation?  If so, that is actually a pretty good problem to have, as it means *most* of your stuff is working right.  smile

700

(31 replies, posted in Recording)

And you're not the first (or even the second) person do do it.  In fact, you're not even the only person on this list that may end up doing that two or three times.   Trust me on that.  smile


Anyway, you want to dial your master volume up when you record, as that is going to be the level that gets written to disk.   One of the black arts of mixing like this is getting your levels set correctly, as there seems to be a way to adjust volume at every step of the audio chain.  You can adjust a tracks volume with the sliders (or pots, in your case) on the channel strip. You can adjust it again if you route it through effects.  You get another chance at the master sliders, and if you're using a DAW, you get even more opportunities then.  So there's lots of opportunity to fine tune, but also to... aahhhh.... not-so-fine-tune?

Oddly enough, the volume controls for your monitors or headphones *don't* effect the master track.  That means what you hear may be (and in fact probably is) at a different volume to what the mains are at.    So it possible to turn the master track down low but your headphones up high, and the recording comes out dim.  So do the opposite. Turn the master up high (don't let it clip, though) and your headphones down low.  Then adjust the headphone volume.  That should give you a signal level you can use.