576 Reply by Dirty Ed

(7 replies, posted in Songwriting)

A bridge can can be a great transitional element in a song and can grab the listener's attention, especially if it contrasts well both musically and lyrically from other song sections. As songwriters, it gives us the opportunity to use a different melody, meter or chord structure as well as a different rhyme scheme.  Another favorite John Denver song of mine which uses a bridge is "Goodbye again" (verse/chorus, verse/chorus, bridge, verse/chorus)

In "Slip, Slidin' Away", Paul Simon uses a different strategy - (chorus/verse, chorus/verse, bridge, chorus/verse, chorus)

I've put bridges in a few of my songs to try to break up the monotony a little (my voice can get pretty monotonous) In a song I wrote a few years ago called "Pistol Don", I didn't use a chorus anywhere, but added a "refrain" at the end of a couple verses.  So to try to break things up a little I put in a bridge.  If you charted it, it would look like (verse, verse, verse/refrain, verse/refrain, bridge, verse refrain).

Here's a recording done of the song when I played it at an open mic.  Please forgive the jumbled lyrics at the end - it was the first time I had played it and forgot the lyrics so I stumbled/ad-libbed some words in the last verse.;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btug3B1XUG0

DE

Go to forum: Songwriting

577 Reply by Dirty Ed

(6 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

Those tight harmonies in their vocals were what attracted me to their "sound" back when I was a kid.

DE

Go to forum: Chordie's Chat Corner

578 Reply by Dirty Ed

(11 replies, posted in Songwriting)

Good one. 

Be nice to hear it. That F-Am jump is intriguing and I'm trying to imagine the melody and beat that go along with it.

DE

Go to forum: Songwriting

579 Reply by Dirty Ed

(13 replies, posted in Songwriting)

Nice song Phil. As Amy said it has a Billy Joel feel to it.  I put on my songwriter's critique hat and listened to it three times, paying close attention to the lyrics, meter, melody, and rhythm.  Everything fits together well (prosody).  Also your vocals and instrumentals are very good and do an excellent job of supporting what I like to call the song's "vision". A well done tune IMHO.

DE

Go to forum: Songwriting

580 Reply by Dirty Ed

(160 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

jets60 wrote:

Hehehe....looks and sounds like ya'll are having one heck of a time.

I missed seeing /hearing you in the circle Jets. Wish you could have made it.

I played a new song Friday evening that I finished writing a few weeks ago. It was one of those that had laid around for a while because it needed better lyrics in the bridge.  As I told Zurf, I "borrowed" a couple lines from your song "That's What Life's About' to finish the bridge using parts of the first and third lines from your chorus. As I'd like to keep the lines in my song would you mind being considered as a co-writer?

DE

Go to forum: Chordie's Chat Corner

581 Reply by Dirty Ed

(160 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

After 13 hours on the road yesterday I finally got back home about 10 pm last night, concluding a 9-day southern "road tour", including 2 days visiting Savannah GA,  3 days in St. Pete for Chordiestock and another 3 days in Pensacola visiting my oldest daughter and grandkids.  It was 38 degrees and snow covered when Jen and I left home, 80 degrees and sunny in Savannah, high 70's and overcast in St. Pete, rainy and chilly in Pensacola (38 degrees and sunny when we left yesterday morning). When we got back home the snow was gone but it was a balmy 16 degrees. (8 degrees this morning as I type this) By far, the warmest part of the trip was the camaraderie of the chordians and other musicians I met while in St. Pete.

Only Jeff and Scott knew I was coming to Chordiestock as I wanted to surprise my old friend Derek, and by the look on his face when I strolled into the Brown Boxer Friday evening with Jeff and Amy, I guess my surprise worked. It was the first time I had met Jeff but soon he felt like a long-lost friend. It was also the first time I met his friend Robert - friendly, witty, great story teller, excellent picker and singer - we hit it off instantly.  After dinner we went back to Jeff's condo complex for some sippin' singin' and pickin' and were soon joined by Scott (also met for the first time).  I had left Jennifer back at the motel so I excused myself about 11 pm while the rest of the group continued on.

Jen and I joined the group for about 6 hours on Saturday where I met Wayne - and was blown away by his talent. With several other local folks joining in there was quite a variety of tunes being played. Jeff was a great host and provided lots of good food to keep our energy up while playing in the circle. Derek, Robert and I were deeply concerned about the possibility of catching some weather-related illness so between us we shared a bottle of "bourbon/medicine" I had brought and when it was gone, tried a few of the other "cures" that seemed to be in abundance.

Sunday at the Pub was a hoot.  My two favorite things was getting to meet and talk to Roscoe and being joined by Jen in singing a song we often do together on the back porch.

A few memories I'll have of the weekend:

Jeff's "turbo" song versions and good humor
Amy's pipes, as well as being an absolute sweetheart
Wayne's talent
Scott's enthusiam
Robert - what can I say?  If we'd met years ago we'd probably both be in jail now.  What a great guy and great musical talent
Derek- an old friend that like wine gets better with age

Thanks Jeff for hosting the affair. Jennifer and I had a great time.

DE

Go to forum: Chordie's Chat Corner

582 Reply by Dirty Ed

(160 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

That's a great looking forecast Jeff. 

In a 2-hour span yesterday three people in my county died of heart attacks while shoveling snow.

DE

Go to forum: Chordie's Chat Corner

583 Reply by Dirty Ed

(160 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

topdown wrote:

Long term forecast is calling for lots of sunshine and highs near 80 - a perfect weekend! Beautiful here today - had happy hour tropical drinks and mussels  outside overlooking the water thinking about all my friends up north fighting the snow! 7 more days!

Just finished cleaning 5" of new snow off my driveway, uncovering the 1/2" of ice we got a few days ago. Prediction is for the temps to reach 40 here on Monday so maybe the ice will melt.  Might take a while for the snow though.  My yard looks like a scene from Dr. Zhivago........

DE

Go to forum: Chordie's Chat Corner

584 Reply by Dirty Ed

(6 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

Tenement Funster wrote:

Here in Eastern Canada, the local bluegrassers are very particular about what kinds of instruments "qualify" as true bluegrass instruments or not. In particular, the only form of percussion the purists will allow is a solid "chop" on the mandolin.

I was told about a campfire jam session at the Stan Rogers Festival in Canso a few years ago. Local legend J. P. Cormier was there, and some newbie showed up with set of spoons. He did his clickety-clack thing through the first couple of tunes, before J.P. asked if he could see the spoons, saying he had never heard such a unique tone from a set of spoons. The chap felt honored that his kitchen spoons had impressed J.P. so much, and gladly passed them over. J.P. stood up and drove them a long throw into the nearby woods, and said to the guy: "Don't ever bring a set of spoons to a bluegrass festival again!"

Buddy was quite shocked, but the point was made and everyone had a good laugh.

I love bluegrass music but am not that fond of most old campfire bluegrass pickers.  They seem kind of snobbish, as if there is only one way to play a bluegrass song. The way I see it, they aren't doing anything that a CD player can't do. 

DE

Go to forum: Chordie's Chat Corner

585 Topic by Dirty Ed

(6 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

I've always wondered about the subtle differences between Celtic, bluegrass and old time music........

http://bluegrassnation.org/link_type/th … explained/

DE

Go to forum: Chordie's Chat Corner

586 Reply by Dirty Ed

(26 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

So sorry to hear about your loss. My deepest sympathy and prayers for your family.

DE

Go to forum: Chordie's Chat Corner

587 Topic by Dirty Ed

(9 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

It was 50 years ago today that the Beatles appeared on the Ed Sullivan show and changed the US music scene forever.  40% of all the TVs in America were tuned in to listen to the Fab Four that night.  The way we dressed, cut our hair and music we listened to and played changed from that day. Within a few months even the 17-piece band I was playing drums with was able to obtain a "Big Band" arrangement of Beatles hits and it became our most requested medley at Country Club and Elks Club dances.

How did the last 1/2 century go by so quickly?

DE

Go to forum: Chordie's Chat Corner

588 Reply by Dirty Ed

(160 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

jets60 wrote:
Zurf wrote:

Looking forward to meeting you Topdawgz.  For some of us (like some goofball named Zurf), simple strummers is all we CAN do.

Selling yourself too short, Zurf. Although, The Strummers Bruthers would be a great acoustic/folk band name.

Looking at the age group of a lot of Chordians, perhaps "Elderly Brothers" might also be in the running. wink

DE

Go to forum: Chordie's Chat Corner

589 Reply by Dirty Ed

(8 replies, posted in Songwriting)

Rap isn't one of my favorite genres either but mainly because of subject matter.  However, something about breaking a song down to basics (lyrics and a beat) is kind of appealing.

DE

Go to forum: Songwriting

590 Reply by Dirty Ed

(17 replies, posted in Songwriting)

Great input Jeff.  You wrote: " If a song doesn't catch me or interest me, I will not try to help fix it so that it does. I don't like to give criticism on songs I don't enjoy reading, playing or listening to so I usually refrain from commenting on those songs."

I think most of us don't want to provide negative critiques so we refrain from commenting - even if the songwriter is asking us to be honest.  However there is still something to be learned. When I hear a new song that doesn't "catch or interest me" I try to analyze why.  Sometimes its merely the subject matter or genre.  If it's a genre I don't particularly care for then I realize its just a matter of musical taste and stop there. But if it's in a genre I normally write in I'm intrigued why the song didn't work for me as the listener.  I know the songwriter was trying to say or show me something that was important enough to write a song about so I try to figure out what it was about the song that didn't grab my attention. By analyzing what was effective or not affective, I can apply it to my own songwriting.

Was the subject matter personal to the writer but not applicable to me or other listeners?
Were the lyrics poorly written or hard to follow?
Was the rhyme scheme inconsistent and distracting?
Were the rhymes "forced" and not free-flowing?
Did each verse provide new information to peak my interest as a listener?
Did the hook/chorus or bridge provide lyrical and musical contrast to grab my attention?
If there wasn't a chorus or bridge (VVV type song) were the verses too weak to stand on their own? - if so was it due to lyrics/music/both?
Does the time signature/beat/groove support the lyrics and theme of the song?
Does the chord structure (minors/majors, etc) complement the lyrics and theme?
Does the melody/vocal range enhance the lyrics? (do accents in the melody stress important song parts or is melody range too narrow producing a "droning" feel)

As several have said, we critique songs by our own personal "yardstick".  What has one listener yelling for more may induce another to scratch their head and wonder what all the hoopla is about. That's why there's so many different genres. For me, analyzing songs similar to my own writing style helps me choose the the best tools from my own toolbox when creating a new song. Unfortunately my toolbox still has saws and chisels that could be sharper wink

DE

Go to forum: Songwriting

591 Reply by Dirty Ed

(17 replies, posted in Songwriting)

Interesting comments.  What prompted me to initiate this thread was finding some old comment sheets from 10 years ago when I was attending the critique classes.  10 years later I still need to work on many of the things I listed.  What I miss is the honesty in the critiques. Through the group I learned that as songwriters or artists we have a "vision" for an artistic work but that vision alone can't create art and we must employ necessary skills to render the vision on canvas or in a song. On the other hand, if all we have are the necessary skills but lack artistic vision, then new art is still not created. The goal is to marry the vision with the "craftmanship" necessary to best display our work so studying the various methods and techniques that can be used by songwriters or artists creates a bigger "toolbox" for a songwriter/artist to use.  The group motto was "no rules - just tools". 

Like most of us, I write songs mostly to fulfil some sort of artistic "need" , not to pitch or sell for profit.  However, even though we basically write songs for ourselves, the purpose of a song is to be played and heard by others, not to be locked up like entries in a diary.  So from my perspective if the plan is to let others hear our songs, we should at least try to make it our best effort.....  Kinda like selecting the best rods, reels and lures before a fishing trip or sprucing up your house before guests arrive. wink

I've usually had very good audience acceptance of my songs Joe, and its a great feeling to be on a stage when folks are into what you're playing.  As you said, occasionally I'll get a real positive reaction to what I consider to be one of my poorest crafted songs although the ones I've put more thought and technical effort into seem to have a higher "acceptance" percentage, so learning about the "craft" of songwriting has helped me considerably with my songwriting efforts.  I've also had the honor of having a few other musicians play some of my tunes and personally I like it when they adapt it to their own style.

Phil, i agree with what you're saying, but It's hard to critique a song if all you see are the lyrics and chord notations but can't hear the accompanying rhythm and melody. 

DE

Go to forum: Songwriting

592 Topic by Dirty Ed

(17 replies, posted in Songwriting)

As a songwriter, how well do you take criticism of your songs?  I don't mean someone just saying they like or don't like the song you wrote, but an analytical critique of the song for form & structure and how well you as a songwriter have conveyed your artistic vision to the listener.  A while back Beamer and I had an email discussion about having songs critiqued. I used to attend an NSAI (Nashville Songwriters Association International) group that did a weekly songwriter's open mic, occasional work shops and a monthly "critique" session.  At the critique sessions each songwriter would bring copies of the lyric sheets for a new song, then perform the song while other members followed along on the lyric sheets and made notes in the margins about the relative strengths and weaknesses of the different song sections and sometimes made suggestions for possible improvements.  After you played your song there was a comment session where your song would be discussed and then you were also given all the comment sheets for later review at home. The first time I attended I brought a new song I was working on and thought it had some potential, but was really surprised how bad it got hammered by the group.  At first I took it personal, but as the group leader said, the critiques were not personal attacks on the writer but rather trying to identify weaknesses and strengths each writer has in the songwriting process and helping them to improve.  After several years of friends and relatives constantly telling me how "great" my songs were, it was a wake-up call that maybe my songwriting needed more effort. (One lady wrote religious songs and told the group her songs were inspired by God so she wouldn't change anything - if that was true then God is not a very good song writer IMHO wink  It was more than a year and lots of negative comments before I ever presented a song that passed muster with the group. It was tough but a learned a lot (as well as becoming thicker-skinned).

As a "lyrics" kinda guy, I  was hoping that by writing clever lyrics, they would carry the song alone, but found that is only true in writing poetry. To be considered a "song" there must be both lyrics and music and even great lyrics combined with a weak musical structure is not something most folks want to listen to (unless its your mom).  The music should complement the lyrics (prosody) through rhythm (beat/groove/time signature) harmony (chords/key) and the melody.  Not only that, but the music as well as the lyrics should have contrast between the verses, chorus and bridge (if used).  This was identified as one of my weaknesses and there has been an on-going attempt at improvement.  Like a duffer/golfer I occasionally get off a good shot most of the time I'm hacking away in the rough.

Other things I found I needed to work on:

Stronger opening lines to grab the listener's attention or a short "catchy" musical intro to get the listener to want to listen to the lyrics
Better hook development
"Showing" not "telling" (painting a picture with words rather than just providing info like a newspaper article)
Getting to the chorus more quickly and effectively
Dynamic and engaging melodies
Overuse of unnecessary words

Have any of you went through these type critiques?  How did you handle it?  Did the honest feedback help you as a songwriter?

DE

Go to forum: Songwriting

593 Reply by Dirty Ed

(21 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

I love that plain and simple look. How does she sound plugged in?

I may have to change plans and come down for Chordiestock just to see your collection Jeff.

DE

Go to forum: Chordie's Chat Corner

594 Reply by Dirty Ed

(10 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

Bass Viking wrote:

Great Job DE!  I has actually considered coming down until a few days before I got notice of a reunion for the Ashville Open Mic so I decided to go play instead of just coming and enjoying you and others.  I know you did your normally great job and the interaction with the young fellow is legendary!

I had planned to go to the reunion too Jim, but the University changed the FFS concert date so there was a conflict.  I got an email from John Locke and he told me so many players showed up that some didn't get to perform. He also informed me that there is interest in doing a monthly open mic. It'd be nice to have a monthly visit with the old crowd again.

DE

Go to forum: Chordie's Chat Corner

595 Topic by Dirty Ed

(10 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

Thursday evening I performed in the Foothills Folk Society concert/fundraiser at OUC (Ohio University - Chillicothe campus).  The Foothills Folk Society is a non-profit organization dedicated to promoting and preserving  Appalachian arts and is made up of local musicians and artists who donate their time to raise money to provide free instruments and music lessons for local youth.  We also collect donations for the local food bank. (We contributed over 4 tons of food in 2013).

The program theme this year was folk songs from the 50's and 60's and each performer was asked to play at least one song from that era.  I played Donovan's "Catch the Wind" and "I Just Want to be a Folk Singer" (written by local singer/songwriter Jeff Hartley) and then 3 of my original tunes.  The audience was real receptive and I really enjoyed playing.  After I finished my set, I put my guitar away, stashed it in a small room behind the stage and then went out into the hall so I could enter the auditorium in the rear and sit in one of the back seats to hear the next act.  As I was walking down the hall I heard footsteps behind me so I stopped and turned around.  There was a chubby youngster about 10-12 years old following me and when I stopped he almost turned and ran but finally got his courage up to approach me. In a shy voice he said "Sir, I want to tell you how much I liked your songs." I immediately thanked him and asked him if he played an instrument.  He told me he had been taking banjo lessons for 7 months. We talked about music for several moments and I invited him to attend our next FFS "Munch and Jam". (monthly get-together where we have a short business meeting then socialize and play for 3 hours). When we parted ways I'm not sure who had the biggest smile.  For me, the praise of that youngster meant more than all the applause from the audience.  It was really a special moment I'll always remember.

It was a pretty successful evening.  We ended up making $500 for the group and also received $59 in cash and over 400 pounds of food for the food bank.

DE

Go to forum: Chordie's Chat Corner

596 Reply by Dirty Ed

(7 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

jerome.oneil wrote:

The only tattoo I have ever considered is a circle of 5ths on the inside of my left forearm.

I once drank most of a 5th and checked myself for tattoos when I finally woke up the next day ............. wink

DE

Go to forum: Chordie's Chat Corner

597 Reply by Dirty Ed

(25 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

You're right Zurf.  Bars and venues that hire cover bands are supposed to be licensed through a performance rights organization (PRO) such as BMI or ASCAP, although many ignore or choose not to pay for the rights.  Occasionally one of the PROs will audit some venues for compliance, but it would be difficult to check them all.  I once played in a bar that only allowed singers/songwriters to play their original music so they could avoid paying the license fees.

I'm not represented by a PRO but I appreciate the Yuengling offer.;)

DE

Go to forum: Chordie's Chat Corner

598 Reply by Dirty Ed

(6 replies, posted in My local band and me)

Excellent job Jeff, the vocals and harmonies were spot on.

As a fellow songwriter I also took the time to listen to your originals.  I was especially impressed with "A Child's Eyes".  Besides the well-written lyrics the verses were presented in a consistent ABAB rhyme structure with excellent phrasing and cadence.  The prosody was dead on due to your use of minor chords to complement the lyrics. The hook/chorus grabbed my attention as a well-written song should. All-in-all a really good song about a difficult subject.

I found it interesting that in most of your other songs you do not utilize a lyrical chorus or hook, but rather a melodic chorus (guitar riff).  Is this a writing style you developed on your own or is it influenced by a particular songwriter? 

DE

Go to forum: My local band and me

599 Reply by Dirty Ed

(25 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

Having formerly been involved in an NSAI  songwriter's group I also wonder about the ethics of a cover band performing songs for money without providing compensation to the songwriters for use of their copyrighted works. 

DE

Go to forum: Chordie's Chat Corner

600 Reply by Dirty Ed

(12 replies, posted in Chordie's Chat Corner)

mekidsmom wrote:

As someone that colors hair and thrives upon the natural light to make decisions and make people beautiful... I HATE fluorescent lights and LED's.  You can buy "natural light" fluorescents, but they do not really show true colors unless you're positioned in exactly the perfect spot under the light.  It sucks to have to tell people to go outside and take a mirror to actually see what their hair looks like sometimes.  On the other hand, they are cheaper to run.  sad

My wife Jennifer and middle daughter Tiffany are both art majors and hate trying to paint indoors using the cfl lights.  Per Jen, the LEDs are just as bad.  They both claim that most of their inspiration comes at night and now they won't have proper lighting when their Muse strikes.

DE

Go to forum: Chordie's Chat Corner